explain

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Sovatthika
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explain

Post by Sovatthika » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:37 am

self view vs conceit

i want to know if i got it correct thx
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

DooDoot
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Re: explain

Post by DooDoot » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:40 am

My answer here is:

Self-view is a belief, view or opinion (ditthi); similar to believing the earth is flat is a view (ditthi). The vast majority of people believe they are a permanent substantial real self, which is self-view. The vast majority of people have never experienced the absence of the feeling or sense of self, which is why they have self-view.

Contrary to the vast majority of people, enlightened Buddhists have had certain insights, which have resulted in the ending of self-view or self-belief, similar to how people stop believing the earth is flat but instead believe the earth is round. However, although people no longer believe the Earth is flat, often they grasp at the idea the earth is flat, such as when buying a block of land or building a foundation for a house.

Similarly, although enlightened Buddhists no longer believe in a self that is substantial & real, there can be lapses in mindfulness & wisdom, where grasping experience as 'self' or "I am" can still occur. This unmindful unwise arising of "I am" or "they are" is conceit.

Therefore, in Buddhism, all four enlightened beings have extinguished self-view but only arahants have permanently extinguished conceit. The difference is sort of like this. Its like being atheist & not believing in god but, when something significant occurs, you occasionally say: "OMG" or "God help us".
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

SarathW
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Re: explain

Post by SarathW » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:05 am

Sovatthika wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:37 am
self view vs conceit

i want to know if i got it correct thx
Self-view is eradicated by Sotapanna. (You understand that there is a continuation of life in Samsara due to causes and conditions but there is no soul (the notion that there is I me or myself) but the accumulation of the five aggregate)


The conceit is eradicated by Arahant. (he completely eradicated the self-identification. ie: He has the self-identification only for the residue five aggregate and no future birth) It is not possible to understand this state unless you are an Arahant.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

DooDoot
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Re: explain

Post by DooDoot » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:00 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:05 am
The conceit is eradicated by Arahant. (he completely eradicated the self-identification. ie: He has the self-identification only for the residue five aggregate and no future birth) It is not possible to understand this state unless you are an Arahant.
Where do the suttas explain like this?
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

SarathW
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Re: explain

Post by SarathW » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:08 am

I am sorry I can't find the Sutta right now.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

paul
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Re: explain

Post by paul » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:32 pm

“Self-view is eradicated by Sotapanna.
The conceit is eradicated by Arahant. “

The fetters are divided into five lower and five higher. Personality view is a lower fetter and conceit a higher.
SN 22:89
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .than.html

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Zom
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Re: explain

Post by Zom » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:02 pm

Self-view is a belief, view or opinion (ditthi); similar to believing the earth is flat is a view (ditthi)
Yes, this is right.

And conceit is not a belief, it is an actual experience, the feeling of self. It can be directly observed when it appears, just like any other mental phenomenons.

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Sovatthika
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Re: explain

Post by Sovatthika » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am

majjhimanikāya 1 came to mind
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

jagodage
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Re: explain

Post by jagodage » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:27 am

Dear DW readers

There was a good posting to Sovtthika's question by DooDoot.

:anjali:

With Metta
Jagodage

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