Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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DooDoot
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by DooDoot » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:15 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:34 pm
On identity, and thus by extension, identity politics...
I think some suttas in the Brāhmaṇa Vagga of the Majjhima Nikaya are also show the non-Buddhist nature of identity politics; where the Brahmans believed there was special virtue or status based on identity (birth):
Good Gotama, brahmans speak thus: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other castes are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; only brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’ What does the good Gotama say about this?”

MN 93 https://suttacentral.net/en/mn93
One’s not a brahmin caused by “birth”,
nor caused by “birth” a non-brahmin;
a brahmin’s one by karma caused,
by karma caused a non-brahmin.

Thus according as it is
people wise do karma see;
Seers of causal relatedness,
skilled in karma, its results.

Karma makes the world go on,
people by karma, circle round;
sentient beings are bound to karma,
as a cart is pulled by a horse.

MN 98 https://suttacentral.net/en/snp3.9

chownah
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:08 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:34 pm
Greetings,
retrofuturist wrote:#7. Insight about the fallacious nature of identity, and by extension, identity politics.
...
Anyway, they're the insights that come to mind immediately, but if there are more factors that come to mind I will be happy to share them.
From the Agamas (SA 109)

On identity, and thus by extension, identity politics...
A noble disciple who is endowed with the vision of the truth gains the fruit of right comprehension (abhisamaya ). If the common folk has wrong view, that has its basis in identity view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi ), accumulates through identity view, arises through identity view, and emerges through identity view. That is, being covered by and experiencing worry and sorrow, they [still] celebrate and cher­ish it, call it a self, call it a living being, call it out­standing, special, and hold it to be superior.

“In this way this multitude of wrongness has all been completely given up and eradicated, removed at its root; like a plantain tree it will not arise again in the future.

Metta,
Paul. :)
All politics is identity politics.
chownah

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:12 am

Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:08 am
All politics is identity politics.
Let's not drift too far from the topic, but.... no, it's not.
Identity politics, also called identitarian politics, refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify. Identity politics includes the ways in which people's politics are shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations. Examples include social organizations based on age, religion, social class or caste, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party affiliation, sexual orientation, settlement, urban and rural habitation, and veteran status. Not all members of any given group are involved in identity politics. Identity politics are used by minority and civil rights organizations to form a coalition with members of the majority.
(source)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:09 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:12 am
Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:08 am
All politics is identity politics.
Let's not drift too far from the topic, but.... no, it's not.
Identity politics, also called identitarian politics, refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify. Identity politics includes the ways in which people's politics are shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations. Examples include social organizations based on age, religion, social class or caste, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party affiliation, sexual orientation, settlement, urban and rural habitation, and veteran status. Not all members of any given group are involved in identity politics. Identity politics are used by minority and civil rights organizations to form a coalition with members of the majority.
(source)

Metta,
Paul. :)
Let's not drift too far from the topic, but....yes, it is.
The mainstay of politics is exactly the list you have bolded namely:
age, religion, social class or caste, culture, dialect, disability, education, ethnicity, language, nationality, sex, gender identity, generation, occupation, profession, race, political party affiliation, sexual orientation, settlement, urban and rural habitation, and veteran status.
chownah

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Mr Man
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by Mr Man » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 am

The idea that identity view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi) is reserved for those of a certain political leaning is bazaar (if anyone holds such a view).

The common folk are all who are not noble disciple's.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:36 am

Greetings,
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 am
The idea that identity view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi) is reserved for those of a certain political leaning is bazaar
Not exclusively reserved for bizarre ideologies, but Wrong View (identity ideology, rooted in self-view) leads to Wrong Thought (I making, the "I am" conceit, craving) and what the Buddha calls a "multitude of wrongness".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by Mr Man » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:15 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:36 am
Greetings,
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 am
The idea that identity view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi) is reserved for those of a certain political leaning is bazaar
Not exclusively reserved for bizarre ideologies, but Wrong View (identity ideology, rooted in self-view) leads to Wrong Thought (I making, the "I am" conceit, craving) and what the Buddha calls a "multitude of wrongness".

Metta,
Paul. :)
And this "multitude of wrongness" is shared by all who are not noble disciple's.

What percentage of right wingers, trump supporters, capitalists, libertarians etc. have broken free of identity view? How many would even see it as a problem?

Identity view is fundamental to all ideologies.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:50 am

:shock:
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

paul
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by paul » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:11 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism, Socialism/Communism and Capitalism

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:18 am

Greetings,

Against globalism and authoritarianism...
All subjection to another is painful;
All sovereignty is Bliss
- Udana 2.9 "Visaka"
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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