What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:18 pm

L.N. wrote:
Paul Davy wrote:Until such time, the Tasmanian Devils are a fitting tribute to his legacy, and a reminder of his contributions towards the establishment and growth of this forum.
tiltbillings wrote:
Paul Davy wrote:
As it stands presently, his account has been de-activated at his request, but it is everyone's hope that he will choose to return some day either in an official capacity as a moderator, or as a regular member, as he sees fit.
It is not going to happen.
Regrettable that it is not going to happen.
Very much so.
Respect to Ben and tiltbillings for their contributions. They obviously did something right.
Oh, yes, we did, indeed. Thanks for the kind words.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Bundokji » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:51 pm

Before reading this thread i noticed Ben's absence, but did not know that he left this forum.

Ben, where ever you are, thank you! Also many thanks to tilt for sharing his wisdom with us.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 pm

Bundokji wrote:Before reading this thread i noticed Ben's absence, but did not know that he left this forum.

Ben, where ever you are, thank you! Also many thanks to tilt for sharing his wisdom with us.
Thank you. I'll pass this onto Ben.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Aloka » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:57 pm

.

Sending all my good wishes to Ben (and to Tilt).

Image

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3340
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Mr Man » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:08 pm

Paul Davy wrote:Greetings L.N.,

I understand it as a mark of respect towards Ben - a founding member of this forum who served here alternating between the global moderator and administrator roles for several years. He is a beautiful hearted friend and his presence here is surely missed.

As it stands presently, his account has been de-activated at his request, but it is everyone's hope that he will choose to return some day either in an official capacity as a moderator, or as a regular member, as he sees fit. The offer to serve the community as a moderator has been extended to him, and whilst he has declined that offer at the present time, he knows that it remains an open offer...

Until such time, the Tasmanian Devils are a fitting tribute to his legacy, and a reminder of his contributions towards the establishment and growth of this forum. Furthermore so when you consider the global reach of the internet and how it allow Buddhists in even the most remote corners of the globe to correspond with one another, regardless of whether or not they are blessed with geographical proximity to a suitable spiritual community.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Given what is known of Ben's departure this post comes across as extremely disingenuous, in my opinion. And this needs to be said.

Did you want Ben removed as Admin Paul? Did you want that position back?

chownah
Posts: 7333
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by chownah » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:12 am

Mr Man wrote: Given what is known of Ben's departure this post comes across as extremely disingenuous, in my opinion. And this needs to be said.

Did you want Ben removed as Admin Paul? Did you want that position back?
This post of yours I think is the result of bad judgement on your part.
First, I think that you are reading into the post something which is not there. You judge this post as being "extremely disingenuous". I have read through this post twice carefully and do not yet understand what it is that you see as being "extremely disingenuous". Can you show me which sentence or sentence it is and explain how you see it as being "extremely disingenuous"? Certainly it is not "I understand it as a mark of respect towards Ben - a founding member of this forum who served here alternating between the global moderator and administrator roles for several years."....and certainly it is not "The offer to serve the community as a moderator has been extended to him, and whilst he has declined that offer at the present time, he knows that it remains an open offer..."....and again certainly it is not "Until such time, the Tasmanian Devils are a fitting tribute to his legacy, and a reminder of his contributions towards the establishment and growth of this forum. Furthermore so when you consider the global reach of the internet and how it allow Buddhists in even the most remote corners of the globe to correspond with one another, regardless of whether or not they are blessed with geographical proximity to a suitable spiritual community."
If the excerpts I have listed above are not the indication of "extremely disingenuous" then we are left with:

"He is a beautiful hearted friend and his presence here is surely missed."
and
"As it stands presently, his account has been de-activated at his request, but it is everyone's hope that he will choose to return some day either in an official capacity as a moderator, or as a regular member, as he sees fit."

Concerning "He is a beautiful hearted friend and his presence here is surely missed." Do you think that Paul Davy's feelings toward Ben is more ingenuously put as being "He is a misanthropic hateful person and I am glad he is gone"?
and
Concerning "As it stands presently, his account has been de-activated at his request, but it is everyone's hope that he will choose to return some day either in an official capacity as a moderator, or as a regular member, as he sees fit." Do you think that Paul Davy's feeling toward Ben is more ingenuously put as being "I hope he never comes back here in any capacity and we would be better off if he was officially and permanently banned."?


Also, let's take this one more step into the ludicruous and assume that Paul Davy holds an eternal grudge against Ben. What then? What good thing could your post possibly achieve? Do you think that having a shoot out over the change of administration here is going to in some way make things better? Is it going to undo past events? Is it going to improve some future event? Is it going to force that disingenuous Paul Davy to resign in shame?
What the heck do you think you are going to achieve?
In short, what you said does not need to be said....and it especially does not need to be said in the public space.
chownah

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Dan74 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:50 am

I found Paul's comment gracious and sensible, but nevertheless I stand with Mr Man on this one. As far as I can tell Paul had a lot to do with Ben's departure which was handled in a very poor manner indeed, and this magnanimous post by Paul leaves this sad fact and his role in it completely unacknowledged. In this way it is disingenuous. Of course I may have a wrong understanding of the events and Paul can set me straight. I will gladly apologise to him, in that case.

Mr Man has had the courage to speak up on this issue. Chownah, you ask
What the heck do you think you are going to achieve?
What the heck is speaking up about injustice happening under your very nose is going to achieve? I don't know, it might get both of us banned. It might get people thinking about their complicity, whether silent acquiescence or active participation, and do the right Dhammic thing in the end.
_/|\_

Dinsdale
Posts: 5692
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:59 am

Dan74 wrote:I found Paul's comment gracious and sensible, but nevertheless I stand with Mr Man on this one. As far as I can tell Paul had a lot to do with Ben's departure which was handled in a very poor manner indeed, and this magnanimous post by Paul leaves this sad fact and his role in it completely unacknowledged. In this way it is disingenuous. Of course I may have a wrong understanding of the events and Paul can set me straight. I will gladly apologise to him, in that case.

Mr Man has had the courage to speak up on this issue. Chownah, you ask
What the heck do you think you are going to achieve?
What the heck is speaking up about injustice happening under your very nose is going to achieve? I don't know, it might get both of us banned. It might get people thinking about their complicity, whether silent acquiescence or active participation, and do the right Dhammic thing in the end.
:goodpost:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:31 am

I was a member of a different forum and i got banned. Even though (internally) i did not agree with the decision, i did not question the intentions of those who made it. In fact, i am certain that they did it out of goodwill and with the intention of not harming, and i continue to appreciate their wisdom and have gratitude for what i have learned from them.

Different people have different views and different personalities, not every action or decision taken in this world has to be in line with our expectations. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a sign of humility and wisdom. On the other hand, expecting people to have the obligation of explaining themselves all the time can be a sign of conceit.

This thread is a good example of how close and caring we can be even though most of us have never met before in real life :group:

To continue to honor Ben while he is absent is the right thing to do, to open more threads quoting him or sharing our experiences with him and what each of us learned from him. We can do all that with good intentions without finger pointing or making accusations or discussing the past.

P.S: Thanks tilt for sticking around, at least for a while
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Aloka » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:21 am

Dan74 wrote:I found Paul's comment gracious and sensible, but nevertheless I stand with Mr Man on this one. As far as I can tell Paul had a lot to do with Ben's departure which was handled in a very poor manner indeed, and this magnanimous post by Paul leaves this sad fact and his role in it completely unacknowledged. In this way it is disingenuous. Of course I may have a wrong understanding of the events and Paul can set me straight. I will gladly apologise to him, in that case.

Mr Man has had the courage to speak up on this issue. Chownah, you ask
What the heck do you think you are going to achieve?
What the heck is speaking up about injustice happening under your very nose is going to achieve? I don't know, it might get both of us banned. It might get people thinking about their complicity, whether silent acquiescence or active participation, and do the right Dhammic thing in the end.
:goodpost:

Bring back Ben, please! (Even if saying that gets me banned too.)

He's a very kind man who is a knowledgeable and experienced practitioner both on and off the internet and he was dedicated to this forum.

.

User avatar
binocular
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by binocular » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:59 am

Bundokji wrote:Different people have different views and different personalities, not every action or decision taken in this world has to be in line with our expectations.
Moderators at Buddhist forums do function as representatives of Buddhism, though, regardless of what the TOS may say, regardless of this being "just the internet."

The image that people get of Buddhism does depend also on the behavior of people in positions of of responsibility in various Buddhist establishments, which includes online forums.

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:34 am

binocular wrote:
Bundokji wrote:Different people have different views and different personalities, not every action or decision taken in this world has to be in line with our expectations.
Moderators at Buddhist forums do function as representatives of Buddhism, though, regardless of what the TOS may say, regardless of this being "just the internet."

The image that people get of Buddhism does depend also on the behavior of people in positions of of responsibility in various Buddhist establishments, which includes online forums.
I understand your point, but also ordinary members can covey a message in a more fruitful and less confrontational ways.

There is also a big difference between asking questions and questioning. The later can imply "having the higher moral ground".

From my limited understanding of Buddhism, adhering to the laws of the land is praiseworthy. I am not advocating sheepishness, but respecting the authority of people who are trustworthy.

Personally, i can be a bit confrontational if the issue is related to me directly as i would be "minding my own business" and would be the only one who will face the consequences. Defending someone else (even though might be very selfless and out of genuine love and respect) can be a form of "virtue signaling" a term that i learned from Paul by the way.

Its not our duty to ensure justice in this world, more bad than good has been done in the name of justice in my opinion.

Imagine you make a post trying to show goodwill towards a particular member, then some other members start to question your genuinity, how would you feel? I can't see how this approach can be fruitful regardless how well intentioned it might be.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

ex_member
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:39 am

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by ex_member » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:50 am

Hello. I am an ex-member who moved to reddit because of the style of moderation over here. I don't know much about Paul Davy and other moderators but Ben banned me for a month because of opening a topic in the suggestion box that was slightly criticizing the moderation style. I just said that, in my opinion, they were closing/deleting too many topics and my post was treated with delete + 1 month suspension.

I have no idea if the other mods have the same style or moderation or not, but I don't think that particular person people here are crying about was the best example of a good buddhist moderator. And there are many topic on reddit complaining about that too. I know 2 persons on reddit who left DW for the same reason.

User avatar
binocular
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by binocular » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:52 am

Bundokji wrote:Imagine you make a post trying to show goodwill towards a particular member, then some other members start to question your genuinity, how would you feel? I can't see how this approach can be fruitful regardless how well intentioned it might be.
I think the problem is that many people do not know the whole story, and the whole story is not exactly for open forums either.

It's potentially a big issue and essential about the nature of Buddhist practice that might actually best be addressed in more neutral terms, without naming any names and specifics.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 3340
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am

Re: What's up with all of the Tasmanian devils?

Post by Mr Man » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:53 am

Hi chownah
That is my opinion. You do not have to agree with it and I do not claim that it is correct or the final, it is my opinion that is all.

Why do I believe Paul's post was disingenuous? Not any particular word or turn of phrase but more by omission. As I understand it, which again could be wrong, Paul had a fundamental role in Ben's removal from the position of Admin.

As to what do I hope to achieve - I don't expect to achieve anything. Some are no doubt happy that Paul has returned/Ben gone, some not and some indifferent such is the world.

:focus:


Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 63 guests