"Being good and positive, and setting out on the path to happiness, is a choice more so than an ability. Anyone can be positive, if they choose to and if they have the courage to do so."
Do you agree with that or do you disagree?
Positivity is a choice
Re: Positivity is a choice
I find that deliberate attempts to make myself positive only make me miserable.Upasaka Sumana wrote:"Being good and positive, and setting out on the path to happiness, is a choice more so than an ability. Anyone can be positive, if they choose to and if they have the courage to do so."
Do you agree with that or do you disagree?
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6 ... 1414011398
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Positivity is a choice
Hi Upsasaka Sumana,Upasaka Sumana wrote:"Being good and positive, and setting out on the path to happiness, is a choice more so than an ability. Anyone can be positive, if they choose to and if they have the courage to do so."
Do you agree with that or do you disagree?
I do agree [edit: though I would add that it takes patient effort and faith/confidence; edit2: and a lot of failure and persisting in the face of it—see below]. This reminds me of what I've learned from psychology on two kinds theory on motivation and intelligence.
One way to see the Buddhist Path is as a progression in overcoming of the helpless orientation and a mastering of the mastery orientation. I've heard, I think from Venerable Jayasaro, that the Path is also called the viriyavada—the path of effort.Mastery Orientation
o Persist in face of failure
o Have incremental theory of intelligence
• Focus on effort vs. ability
Helpless Orientation
o Give up in face of failure, or avoid challenges
o Have entity theory of intelligence
• Focus on ability vs. effort
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: Positivity is a choice
I agree, although (like Mkoll) I believe it takes effort and practice.Upasaka Sumana wrote:"Being good and positive, and setting out on the path to happiness, is a choice more so than an ability. Anyone can be positive, if they choose to and if they have the courage to do so."
Do you agree with that or do you disagree?
One of the first steps is to recognise just how many of our responses are automatic and (often) unjustified - even irrational. Once we see that, we can begin to change them by interrrupting them - the old "take ten deep breaths before saying anything nasty" kind of technique. And then we practise. And practise. And eventually our newer, better response becomes easier and then automatic.
Meditation aids the first step. Mindfulness is the key to the second.
Kim
Re: Positivity is a choice
I agree.Upasaka Sumana wrote:"Being good and positive, and setting out on the path to happiness, is a choice more so than an ability. Anyone can be positive, if they choose to and if they have the courage to do so."
Do you agree with that or do you disagree?
I have tried to do this in the past unfortunately did not last long.
However now I have discover even more powerful tool.
Being aware of positive (wholsome) , negative (unwholsome) and neutral thoughts.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Positivity is a choice
Good, thank you. The quote is mine, so I am glad that I didn't get it (too) wrong. I like what Mkoll said.
Re: Positivity is a choice
It is both a skill and a choice. The quote is like saying "Anyone can play the piano, if they choose to," or "Anyone can maintain their balance, if they choose to." True as far as it goes, but some people do it better than others, and training makes a big difference.
Re: Positivity is a choice
Thanks, friend. Surely, though, it's not as difficult as those!fivebells wrote:It is both a skill and a choice. The quote is like saying "Anyone can play the piano, if they choose to," or "Anyone can maintain their balance, if they choose to." True as far as it goes, but some people do it better than others, and training makes a big difference.
Re: Positivity is a choice
It can get as subtle and challenging as anything you can imagine.
Re: Positivity is a choice
Of course. The bit I was wondering whether it is true is the underlined words in the OP: choice more so than an ability. The reason is that I do not think it is something too hard for anyone. Of course, it is not easy, but for most of the people who dwell in negativity, the problem is that they are afraid to get out of it, unwilling to, they seem to prefer to stay in that negative mindset because of fear of change, fear of the unknown. Of course, this doesn't apply to all, and it is an observation only of a few of the people I have seen in my life; to others it may be different. But I was thinking that, surely it can't be that hard. They choose to wallow in negativity; they feel incapable of changing, when they actually are capable, if they really wanted to and if they put the effort.
Ajahn Brahm's story of the "Worm in the Pile of Dung" is what I mean. The worm chooses to remain there, and when offered to go to heaven refuses. That is what I meant by "positivity is more of a choice than an ability".
http://amara.org/en/videos/KUM0txDMhfhE/en-gb/9787/#
(Ctrl + F: "worm")
Ajahn Brahm's story of the "Worm in the Pile of Dung" is what I mean. The worm chooses to remain there, and when offered to go to heaven refuses. That is what I meant by "positivity is more of a choice than an ability".
http://amara.org/en/videos/KUM0txDMhfhE/en-gb/9787/#
(Ctrl + F: "worm")
Re: Positivity is a choice
Some people who "wallow in negativity" see no problem with that, they see no need to overcome it, they don't see what you call "negativity" as something negative at all.Upasaka Sumana wrote:Of course. The bit I was wondering whether it is true is the underlined words in the OP: choice more so than an ability. The reason is that I do not think it is something too hard for anyone. Of course, it is not easy, but for most of the people who dwell in negativity, the problem is that they are afraid to get out of it, unwilling to, they seem to prefer to stay in that negative mindset because of fear of change, fear of the unknown. Of course, this doesn't apply to all, and it is an observation only of the people I have seen in my life; to others it may be different. But I was thinking that, surely it can't be that hard. They choose to wallow in negativity;
I'd say many people who appear negative are like that: to them it's not negativity, it's not something bad, it's not something to change. It's seems it's a part of their personality of which they are proud.
"If they really wanted to"?they feel incapable of changing, when they actually are capable, if they really wanted to and if they put the effort.
How does one really want something?
How does one begin to really want something?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Positivity is a choice
Friend, yes, there may be people like that, not anyone I know of personally, though. The people I have seen have all been aware of their state of mind, the problem I find is that they are not trying to get out of it.binocular wrote:Some people who "wallow in negativity" see no problem with that, they see no need to overcome it, they don't see what you call "negativity" as something negative at all.Upasaka Sumana wrote:Of course. The bit I was wondering whether it is true is the underlined words in the OP: choice more so than an ability. The reason is that I do not think it is something too hard for anyone. Of course, it is not easy, but for most of the people who dwell in negativity, the problem is that they are afraid to get out of it, unwilling to, they seem to prefer to stay in that negative mindset because of fear of change, fear of the unknown. Of course, this doesn't apply to all, and it is an observation only of the people I have seen in my life; to others it may be different. But I was thinking that, surely it can't be that hard. They choose to wallow in negativity;
I'd say many people who appear negative are like that: to them it's not negativity, it's not something bad, it's not something to change. It's seems it's a part of their personality of which they are proud.
To get out of a bad situation or negative mindstate you have to want to get out of it, right? And you begin by realizing that the situation is bad and that the mindstate is negative. I think that's the first step. First you realize what the situation is, then when you realize it's not good you immediately also realize the need to get out of it, then you arouse the desire to get out of it, and then you have to know what will get you out of it, then you start doing whatever you know will get you out of it."If they really wanted to"?they feel incapable of changing, when they actually are capable, if they really wanted to and if they put the effort.
How does one really want something?
How does one begin to really want something?
And then, soon enough, you will be out of it.
It may seem that I am judging such people; I am not. I just want to make them realize that they need to do something about it, and that it will be worth beeing free from that negativty and suffering. I had a classmate of mine, a family member, and a former colleague of my mother's who were like that. I could also see that their negativity affected everyone else. Yet, they seemed to prefer to remain there. It is worth mounting the effort to get out of it. It will later be good for both them and the people around them. And it is not that difficult. The biggest problem is the attitude problem, the attitude to choose to continue to suffer. They can be free of that. And I want them to be free of that, for their benefit and everyone else's, but they themselves don't want to.
So if someone tells them that it's not that difficult to be positive and that anyone can set out on the path of happiness -- will that not give them some hope? Will that not make them do something?
Last edited by Lombardi4 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Positivity is a choice
All the negative people that I know see no problem with their negativity.Upasaka Sumana wrote:Friend, yes, there may be people like that, not anyone I know of personally, though. The people I have seen have all been aware of their state of mind, the problem I find is that they are not trying to get out of it.
This sounds reasonable, and wise, and rational, and the sort of thing we can often hear -- and like it should work. But in my experience, it doesn't work. I think what you describe is overkill, overthinking it, making things worse.To get out of a bad situation or negative mindstate you have to want to get out of it, right? And you begin by realizing that the situation is bad and that the mindstate is negative. I think that's the first step. First you realize what the situation is, then when you realize it's not good you immediately also realize the need to get out of it, then you arouse the desire to get out of it, and then you have to know what will get you out of it, then you start doing whatever you know will get you out of it.
I think people are by default optimistic, positive, except that this default optimism or positivity is frequently covered by thought, by socially mandated discourse about what it means to "be serious about life." And once people settle into this discourse, they lose touch with their default optimism or positivity. Hence they try to learn it, anew, with various self-help programs on how to be more optimistic and positive in life, except that that doesn't work, because it's like trying to learn to ride a bike when you already know how to ride a bike.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Positivity is a choice
I don't know, friend, I just want to see positive change in people and the world. It begins with realizing what the current situation is and proceeds through the realization that change has to happen, and then doing something positive to accomplish that. I don't see another way out of it.
Re: Positivity is a choice
It looks like this depends on whether you wish to see this "positive change" in people and the world out of genuine goodwill, or for some other reason.Upasaka Sumana wrote:I don't know, friend, I just want to see positive change in people and the world. It begins with realizing what the current situation is and proceeds through the realization that change has to happen, and then doing something positive to accomplish that. I don't see another way out of it.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!