A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

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pilgrim
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A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by pilgrim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:01 am

31,000 shares in under 3 days. Clearly it struck a chord that finally there is some honesty cutting thru the political correctness and denials.

http://www.jeraldinephneah.me/2015/11/s ... -isis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:16 am

I have to strongly disagree with the premise of this article, That ISIS are truly Muslim and the only solution is for a secularized Islam. ISIS are no more Muslim than the Nazis were Christian, many Nazi's including Hitler called themselves some form of Christian, that does no make Nazism a Christian movement, any more than ISIS "calling" themselves Muslim makes ISIS a Muslim movement. ISIS are a cult religion that break even the most basic rules of Muslim religion, they are in no way representative of Islam as a whole, and I'm pretty sure almost all Muslims would agree with me on this, contrary to popular opinion, Muslims and respected clerics all over the world are condemning ISIS and the Paris attacks. No body wants ISIS in control of anything, and claiming you have to fight Islam to get rid of ISIS is sheer lunacy, Islam is fighting ISIS as best they can,and in every way they can.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by SDC » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:18 am

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by pilgrim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:38 am

ISIS is large enough to qualify as a Sunni sub-sect. Just because other Muslims denounce it does not make it less Islamic. Pure Land Buddhists probably have less association to the Tipitaka than ISIS has to the Quran.

We place Dukkha as the 1st Noble Truth because it is only when we see the problem with clarity and accept it can there be a strategy to overcome it. To say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam is disingenuous and merely attempts to deny the elephant in the room. Perhaps Sam Harris makes this point abundantly clear. Every action of ISIS from its vision to establish a Caliphate, its signature beheadings, etc can be traced to the Quran. People do not create an international organisation spontaneously. There is an underlying collective ideology. If it is not its own interpretation of Islam, twisted as it may be in the eyes of mainstream Muslims, then what is it?

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/slee ... armageddon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Kamran
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by Kamran » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:16 am

The problem with blaming Islam for ISIS is that the direct cause for the rise of this organization was the Invasion of Iraq and attempted overthrow of Assad which allowed ISIS to take over Syrian oil fields. The seed of hatred is in us all, but the wars that west started caused it to grow.

Iran and Russia are on the ground fighting. Iranian generals (Iran is predominantly Muslim country), are On the front line against Isis. Several died in combat last week.

But they are frustrated that Isis is getting heavy duty weapons that can only come from a government. Some countries don't want them succeed against Isis. Can you guess who ?

Iranian generals are dying in Syria.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... g-in-syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So on the one hand, Islam is actively fighting on the ground against ISIS.

On the other hand, is the religion and civilization of Islam. Juan Cole, a noted professor of Mideast history, has analyzed the data of political violence by religion over the last hundred yrs.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/terrori ... gions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

102 million killed by Christians and Muslims. 2 million by Muslims, much of which was from the Iran Iraq war. 100 million were killed by Christians.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:31 am

ISIS members make up about .0025% of worldwide Muslims, how does that make them representative of Islam as a whole. They have about as much to do with Mainstream Islam, as Nicheren Shoshu has to do with Therevada Buddhism.

By the way, very good post Kamran.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by pilgrim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:46 am

No one would say ISIS represents Islam but ISIS is an organisation with Islam at its core. Political leaders continue to express that "Islam has nothing to do with ISIS". Because ISIS uses violence and brutality abundantly, political correctness dictates that we repeat this mantra so as not to offend Muslims. If ISIS is to cease this single act of violence tomorrow, nobody would have a problem identifying it as an Islamic group.

The response by the West to violent threats is always to reach for its guns and fighter jets. This may have an immediate effect but like cutting off the top of a tree without pulling out its roots, it does not solve the underlying problem. The world has to defeat ISIS ideology, but by denying that ISIS is Islamic, then it will not be able to find a reference point to develop a strategy for this purpose.

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by Pasada » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:56 am

pilgrim wrote:The response by the West to violent threats is always to reach for its guns and fighter jets. This may have an immediate effect but like cutting off the top of a tree without pulling out its roots, it does not solve the underlying problem. The world has to defeat ISIS ideology, but by denying that ISIS is Islamic, then it will not be able to find a reference point to develop a strategy for this purpose.
How do you propose defeating ISIS' ideology?

Do you think if we alienate 1.6 billion people across the world, it will help or hinder the fight against ISIS?

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pilgrim
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by pilgrim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:25 am

Pasada wrote:
pilgrim wrote:The response by the West to violent threats is always to reach for its guns and fighter jets. This may have an immediate effect but like cutting off the top of a tree without pulling out its roots, it does not solve the underlying problem. The world has to defeat ISIS ideology, but by denying that ISIS is Islamic, then it will not be able to find a reference point to develop a strategy for this purpose.
How do you propose defeating ISIS' ideology?

Do you think if we alienate 1.6 billion people across the world, it will help or hinder the fight against ISIS?
I do not know how. But we cannot start if we keep pretending that ISIS is an alien invasion. It may alienate some Muslims, but why have we taken the decision that willingly accepting a lie in order not to offend the more radicalised section of a community is the correct way to go? By acknowledging Wirathu is a Buddhist, Buddhist leaders across the world were ready to step forward to denounce his actions. If the world and its political leaders continue to deny the obvious, it just weakens the resolve of the Muslim world to address this problem eating away at its core.

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Pasada
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by Pasada » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:44 am

pilgrim wrote:I do not know how. But we cannot start if we keep pretending that ISIS is an alien invasion.
I've heard some pretty wacky conspiracy theories about the Paris attacks, but this is the first I've heard of anyone claiming ISIS are aliens. Do you have a link to this claim? :alien:

In all seriousness: okay, let us acknowledge that ISIS are Muslims. Where does that leave us, exactly? So are the Kurdish militias which are fighting them. So is the Iraqi Army which is fighting them. So is the Iranian Army which is fighting them. So is Hezbollah which is fighting them. So are most of the refugees fleeing ISIS controlled territory. So are many of the victims of ISIS.

Seems to me the dynamics at play here are too complex to be understood through the simple lens of religious affiliation.

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by pilgrim » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:02 am

"To stop terrorism, go after the queen bees (preachers)" ~ Lee Kuan Yew
He further warned, “Americans, however, make the mistake of seeking a largely military solution. You must use force. But force will only deal with the tip of the problem.”

He told The Telegraph that Qatar and Saudi Arabia had ignited a “time bomb” by spending billions of dollars promoting and proselytizing the militant Wahhabi Salafism, and this must stop. “The root problem is that those two countries are the only two countries in the world where Wahhabi Salafism is the state religion—and Isil is a violent expression of Wahhabist Salafism.”

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/lee-kuan ... errorists/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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No_Mind
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by No_Mind » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:06 am

Pasada wrote: How do you propose defeating ISIS' ideology?
The only way I can think of is allowing Assad to stay (at least for the moment - say next 10 years.) This would mean rest of world having to swallow its pride and agree to agree with Russians. Frankly there is no other way.

In a nutshell, put Assad back in power with a pact that in 10 years he will have to acquiesce to a transition to democracy and in return will be guaranteed safe haven in a country of his choice should he lose the elections (and no prosecution for war crimes.)

It is the only way to take wind out of sails of ISIS, and create conditions so the refugee crisis is mitigated. A $50 billion Syria reconstruction fund will also help to build what has been damaged. It is far less than what it would cost to host millions of refugees and a long drawn out battle / counter terrorism plans.

This has to be reduced from a three cornered fight to a two cornered fight and there is no other way to do it. It is best if West opens back channel talks with Assad immediately bypassing Iran and Russia.

Note to moderator .. I honestly hope I did not go off topic.
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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by khlawng » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:01 am

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Kosalans in a wilderness hut in a Himalayan district. Then, as he was alone in seclusion, this train of thought arose in his awareness: "Is it possible to exercise rulership without killing or causing others to kill, without confiscating or causing others to confiscate, without sorrowing or causing others sorrow — righteously?"

Then Mara, the Evil One, knowing with his awareness the train of thought in the Blessed One's awareness, went to him and on arrival said to him: "Exercise rulership, Blessed One! Exercise rulership, O One Well-gone! — without killing or causing others to kill, without confiscating or causing others to confiscate, without sorrowing or causing others sorrow — righteously!"

"But what do you see in me, Evil One, that you say to me, 'Exercise rulership, Blessed One! Exercise rulership, O One Well-gone! — without killing or causing others to kill, without confiscating or causing others to confiscate, without sorrowing or causing others sorrow — righteously!'?"

"Lord, the Blessed One has developed the four bases of power, pursued them, handed them the reins and taken them as a basis, given them a grounding, steadied them, consolidated them, and undertaken them well. If he wanted to, he could resolve on the Himalayas, king of mountains, as gold, and it would become a mountain of gold."


[The Buddha:]
The entirety
of a mountain of gold,
of solid bullion:
even twice that
wouldn't suffice
for one person.
Knowing this,
live evenly,
in tune with the contemplative life.

When you see stress,
and from where it comes,
how can you incline
to sensual pleasures?
Knowing acquisition
to be a bond in the world,
train for
its subduing.
Then Mara the Evil One — sad & dejected at realizing, "The Blessed One knows me; the One Well-gone knows me" — vanished right there.
SN 4.20

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by Bundokji » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:06 am

Hello :smile:

ISIS is not a new phenomenon, this ideology or interpretation of the religion started to emerge 30-40 years after the death of Muhammad and Muslims gave them the name Al Khawarij. They have been described to be extremely devoted, very focused when they pray for God, they don't lie and they fast a lot. Their version of renouncing the world is a strict one, and they used to be recongnized by their black costume and black banners. They killed two of Muhammad closest companions (Ali and Othman)

This group appeared and disappeared many times throughout the Islamic history, and they always use guerrilla war tactics and revolt against what they believe to be "corrupted rulers". They are not afraid of death and very brave fighters who ask for martyrdom the same way an average human being asks for life.

To say they has nothing to do with Islam is misleading, and to say they are true representers of Islam is also misleading. I don't have time but I will end this post with this interesting story. Once Muhammad was dividing goods and cattle he won in a battle amongst his companion, and as a leader, he did not necessarily gave an equal share to everyone, so a Bedouin told Muhammad infront of everyone: "Don't you fear god, why don't you divide equal shares" and according to the story Muhammad made a prophecy (and a warning) and told his companions that there will appear a group of Muslims similar to this man who are extremely devoted and at the same time extremely deluded and that they will cause a lot of problems and destruction to Muslims and Islam
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: A Singaporean Muslim Response to the Paris Terror Attacks Goes Viral

Post by plwk » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:32 am


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