Paris

A place to discuss casual topics amongst spiritual friends.
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cobwith
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Re: Paris

Post by cobwith »

Greed, hatred & delusion - The three kleshas - The three unwholesome roots.
Alive and kickin', if I may say so.

Mindful, mindful, mindful; must we all be, my friends - and set the example.
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8
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Kamran
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Re: Paris

Post by Kamran »

What is very strange is that France is giving millions in weapons to "rebels" in Syria to overthrow Assad.

These "rebels" are al-qaeda. I can provide citations.

France is financing groups identical to ISIS.

Its almost as if some in France want to be attacked because they benefit from it politically.
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No_Mind
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Re: Paris

Post by No_Mind »

My sincere sympathy goes out to Parisians in this dark hour of their sorrow :candle: Death of innocents cannot be forgiven.

ISIS, the West everyone is at fault here. The fault is blind faith -- faith in religion, faith in capitalism, faith in narrow self interest. No one stops to examine the outcome of their actions before they act.

But let the French not be so outraged. As a colonial power they killed 45,000 Algerians in 1945. They killed 80,000 Malagasy in Madagascar in 1948. One can go on, not only about France but all Western colonial powers. There were no news channels back then and no one knew or cared. So people of France should move on and not vow to avenge .. Karma bites back when one least expects it.

No actual liberté, égalité, fraternité was ever practiced by the French. It was and remains a buzzword.

Stephen Kinzer put it well in an article for Boston Globe after Charlie Hebdo massacre earlier this year. The article is worth a read after the incidents in last 48 hours.
If France, Britain, and other European countries had resisted the imperial temptation — if they had never sent armies to places like Syria, Iraq, India, or North Africa — they would not be facing the terror that afflicts them today. History does not always punish aggressors quickly, but one day, long after the truly guilty have passed from the scene, the punishment may come.
My opinion might be strong. But I believe in being truthful. Unfortunately it falls upon me to provide perspective from the developing world and on behalf of all the people who once bore the agony of being colonized since no other member from the developing world speaks up.

:anjali:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
sattva
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Re: Paris

Post by sattva »

Ben wrote::candle:
may all beings be happy.
May all beings be safe!
http://www.chatzy.com/25904628501622
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Dhammanando
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Re: Paris

Post by Dhammanando »

Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Paris

Post by Dhammabodhi »

If France, Britain, and other European countries had resisted the imperial temptation — if they had never sent armies to places like Syria, Iraq, India, or North Africa — they would not be facing the terror that afflicts them today.
Sorry, I find this statement ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. In what way does independent India (or for that matter stable countries in North Africa like Morocco) contribute to terrorist attacks in Europe? Colonization has nothing to do with fundamentalism in most cases, IMHO. The comments on that article seem to agree with me.

:anjali:
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka
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No_Mind
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Re: Paris

Post by No_Mind »

Dhammabodhi wrote:
If France, Britain, and other European countries had resisted the imperial temptation — if they had never sent armies to places like Syria, Iraq, India, or North Africa — they would not be facing the terror that afflicts them today.
Sorry, I find this statement ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. In what way does independent India (or for that matter stable countries in North Africa like Morocco) contribute to terrorist attacks in Europe? Colonization has nothing to do with fundamentalism in most cases, IMHO. The comments on that article seem to agree with me.

:anjali:
I wrote a long 600 word rebuttal .. but it is off topic so I did not post it. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I am to mine ..

:anjali:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: Paris

Post by Dhammabodhi »

Hi No_Mind,

I agree to most of your points, albeit most of your points were not related directly to identifying colonialism as a 'justification' for terrorism/extremism. My friend, I think you are making the classic mistake of equating correlation with causation: it is true that colonial powers have inflicted much damage, but they don't necessarily cause fundamentalism to arise (where are the Kalashnikov wielding Tibetans in downtown Beijing shouting 'Om mani padme hum'?! :guns: ).

Rather, fundamentalism uses past grievances as a crutch to further its own agendas. Since as you rightly point out this is not the right place for this discussion, I will just leave it at that.

Apologies to others for going off-topic.
:anjali:
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka
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Kamran
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Re: Paris

Post by Kamran »

Dhammabodhi wrote:
If France, Britain, and other European countries had resisted the imperial temptation — if they had never sent armies to places like Syria, Iraq, India, or North Africa — they would not be facing the terror that afflicts them today.
Sorry, I find this statement ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst. In what way does independent India (or for that matter stable countries in North Africa like Morocco) contribute to terrorist attacks in Europe? Colonization has nothing to do with fundamentalism in most cases, IMHO. The comments on that article seem to agree with me.

:anjali:
I think the main concern has been that socialists or nationalist would take over Saudi Arabia, as they did in Egypt (Nasser). The West finances Islamic terrorism to contain:
- Nasser in Egypt
- the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
- the Iranian Revolution.
- Assad in Syria.

Just look at who your governments are supporting Today:

Sadaam Hussain was Secular. Syria's Assad is Secular. Saudi Arabia is Right-WIng Islamic Extremist.

You support Saudi Arabia and use Islamic Bigot Terrorists to combat the secular muslim governments. Sometimes it backfires, but this has been the case for the last 50 yrs.
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Mr Empty
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Re: Paris

Post by Mr Empty »

Isn't it a shame that the only way to live in accordance with the nature of things is to practice the dhamma. The prospect of the planet as whole practicing? - zero. If only peace and calm could defeat aggression.
Greed and hate dominate. My religion is better than yours. My way of life is better than yours. I'm right - you're wrong. The Buddha correctly said that hate breeds hate - but unfortunately it always seems that to put an end to human hatred - a hugely hateful and aggressive military act is required. Human beings (not all) are so argumentative and ignorant.
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Paris

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

Truly, IMHO it's pointless to say anything more about the situations in Paris, France, Boston, Texas,& New York, U.S.A., Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Israel, Iraq, Kuwait, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea,Vietnam, Cambodia, Japan, Italy, Germany, Russia, China, and ad nauseum, other than: "Violence leads only to more violence. This example of Buddha's teachings cannot be denied.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Paris

Post by Kim OHara »

There is one more thing to say, Ron - or perhaps it's only an expansion of what you said:
America: Your Solidarity with Paris is Embarrassingly Misguided
http://theantimedia.org/america-your-so ... misguided/
... Without question, I mourn for Paris’ recent victims and their families — and I would never claim knowledgeable firsthand experience of the same. But I refuse — despite my partial French heritage — to cloak myself in nationalism of any stripe or star, particularly not now. Because, besides victims in Paris, an incomprehensibly astronomic number of people have been grieving loss of the highest order for some time — in places whose names roll off our tongues as if it’s accepted that violence simply happens there — and a majority likely couldn’t guess the colors on these victims’ flags.

You see, I also mourn for those killed mere hours before Paris crumbled into chaos, in strikingly similar attacks in Beirut. ...
:namaste:
Kim
pegembara
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Re: Paris

Post by pegembara »

Dhammanando wrote:
The Gupta Empire ruled most of India into the seventh century A.D. The University of Nalanda incorporated sometime during the Gupta Dynasty. During its first three centuries, the college focused on liberal academic traditions. However, it shifted to a more eastern Buddhist philosophy sometime in the ninth century.

The Buddhist institution contained at least eight different colleges with red brick buildings. Monasteries cropped up in the region and merged with Nalanda to create a greater learning network. The university gained world renown over its existence. Scholars from Greece, China, and Persia visited Nalanda to study.

After about six centuries of existence, Turkish Muslims arrived, but did not display the same respect as the other foreign visitors. In 1193, the Turks brutally sacked Nalanda, burnt the library, and massacred the scholars. The invaders burnt monks alive or simply beheaded them. The atrocity was designed to supplant Buddhism with Islam. The library smoldered for months.
http://www.examiner.com/article/buddhis ... royed-1193" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda#/ ... ._1193.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Paris

Post by Kim OHara »

Dhammanando wrote:
:rolleye:
Wow!
We are civilised (we can't quite define it, but we know we are civilised) and they are barbarians (we don't quite know what that means either but we know it doesn't mean us).

Blind, self-interested ethnocentrism under a thin veneer of fancy language.
:toilet:

:coffee:
Kim
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Dhammanando
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Re: Paris

Post by Dhammanando »

Kim OHara wrote:Wow!
We are civilised...
Take your pick.


Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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