Paris

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Paris

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:57 am

Kim OHara wrote:they are barbarians
Indeed they are. Or do you have some better label for, say, the kind of culturally unassimilable scum depicted in the video below?


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Bundokji
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Re: Paris

Post by Bundokji » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:55 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Kim OHara wrote:Wow!
We are civilised...
Take your pick.


I am a bit surprised to be honest, not for having a particular opinion/belief (everyone is entitled to have an opinion), but for what you chose to present as "evidence" or "justification" to support your belief!
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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No_Mind
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Re: Paris

Post by No_Mind » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:24 pm

Venerable Dhammanando, I respect you very much so I will have to make my comment brief lest I end up offending you in any way.

When you speak of those who are civilized and those who are barbarians in which category does Churchill fall .. the man responsible in large parts for starving three million of us to death in 1942

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... india.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 68698.html

http://www.tehelka.com/2014/06/remember ... holocaust/

You are a good man and you have good intentions but perhaps you should examine the issue of who is civilized and who is barbarian little more deeply .. had there been global news coverage in 1945 would France not have been thought of as barbarian? Such words are not to be used lightly ..

instead of writing more I share two links

http://www.thedailyvox.co.za/my-peoples ... -in-paris/

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/14/our_ter ... ourselves/

Not to mean that in any way I support ISIS or terrorism or killing of innocents.

:anjali:

edit to add links
Last edited by No_Mind on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I know one thing: that I know nothing

tuybachau
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Re: Paris

Post by tuybachau » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:48 pm

Hi there all,

Sure, killing is wrong and it is not fixed by more killings. (see The story of prince Dighavu: Mv 10.2.3-20)
The Jihadis' shootings in Paris or whatever place are wrong so are the bombings the IS or whatever the targets of the French government.
Those who claim to be on the path or seeking the path should not find recourse to worldly measures to explain, to justify, to try to solve (apparently in vain) the current situation. They should understand or at least take chance to learn about the work of kamma and dependent origination.
So it's no good to feed delusion and hatred/ill will by coming up with all kinds of blames and condemnations of imagined culprits (the barbarians, the imperialists, the capitalists, the extremists, the West, the Muslims..)
See also DN 21 in which the Buddha gave answer to Sakka's question "Fettered with what, dear sir — though they think, 'May we live free from hostility, free from violence, free from rivalry, free from ill will, free from those who are hostile' — do devas, human beings, asuras, nagas, gandhabbas, & whatever other many kinds of beings there are, nevertheless live in hostility, violence, rivalry, ill will, with those who are hostile?"

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cobwith
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Re: Paris

Post by cobwith » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:32 pm

It is sad to see so many "akusala raising thoughts" around this thread.

These people are just insane zealots. We must have compassion for them, and hope that the managers of our states will start to cure them. This is what is done in Pakistan nowadays. They send these fanatics to the psychatric ward; and it works.

On a more profound level, our kleshas are responsible for this all mess. They are growing in strength. Isn't there a sutta(?) where it is said that demons are coming out when they do?
We are all, more or less, responsible for this situation > Hatred and revenge in the middle east (Mediterranean drama;) greed in the west; greed and growing moha in the east.
"Stay out of the battle," said Ajahn Chah; and be mindful says the Buddha.

And thanks to the people in this thread who appease our minds in front of such an horror and excessive intolerance.
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

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pilgrim
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Re: Paris

Post by pilgrim » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:44 pm

Why criticise Bhante Dhammanando? He posted a video. It was not an opinion piece or fiction. If the video arouses aversion, one can choose to bury one's head in the ground. Yes, pls manage your mind states and have compassion. But it makes sense to also know what is coming your way. Here's another one.

http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-dist ... -ever-see/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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kirk5a
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Re: Paris

Post by kirk5a » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:13 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Take your pick.
That is precisely what ISIS wants.
In February this year, in a chilling editorial in its propaganda magazine, Dabiq, Isis laid out its own strategy to eliminate what the writer, or writers, called “the grey zone”.

This was, Isis said, what lay between belief and unbelief, good and evil, the righteous and the damned. It was home, too, to all those who had yet to commit to the forces of either side.

The grey zone, Isis claimed, had been “critically endangered [since] the blessed operations of September 11th”, as “these operations showed the world” the two camps that mankind must choose between.

Over the years, since successive violent acts had narrowed the grey zone to the point where by the end of 2014 “the time had come for another event to ... bring division to the world and destroy the grey zone everywhere”.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... is-attacks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This video is a pure propaganda piece. As if it were not possible to replace a minute of beautifully decorated European cities and closeups of attractive women with scenes from the American invasion of Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the after effects of drone strikes. Just to take a few major examples, although the grotesquery the west has unleashed upon many areas of the world just in recent years really can't be overstated. And on the other hand, as if there were no beautiful festivals and smiling attractive people in the Islamic world.

[/quote]
Last edited by kirk5a on Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Mr Man
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Re: Paris

Post by Mr Man » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:19 pm

pilgrim wrote:Why criticise Bhante Dhammanando? He posted a video. It was not an opinion piece or fiction. If the video arouses aversion, one can choose to bury one's head in the ground. Yes, pls manage your mind states and have compassion. But it makes sense to also know what is coming your way. Here's another one.

http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-dist ... -ever-see/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not sure if this is meant as a joke or not.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Paris

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:53 pm

I'd hardly call the cumulative involvement of the West in the Middle East as civilized, actually closer to barbaric, If you look at the casualty figures for deaths caused by both sides, the West actually has the worse record ( in the last 100 years), what's 2 million dead compared to 132, the difference is the ones that killed 2 million call themselves civilized.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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cobwith
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Re: Paris

Post by cobwith » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:58 pm

pilgrim wrote:But it makes sense to also know what is coming your way. Here's another one.
http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-dist ... -ever-see/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" "
This is just what the forces of evil want.
For you see, pilgrim, I am not sure that the managers of our states wants to cure these people. They just want you to buy that extra gun. These people know about destruction and reconstruction. That reality, they know about. They are not ignorant about this arising and fading.

"Nothing is stronger than the forces of Mara" said the Buddha. You cannot fight them. You can just unbind.
What is "coming your way," as you put it, are the reflections of your own fabrications (sankhara).

I used to be a very violent man, and I lost an eye fighting islamists well before 9/11. I am violent by nature (I come from an old military background - father in the foreign legion, who turned out somewhat pacifist; grandfather officer of the queen (of England) and a very violent character; many admirals on my mother side with vehement personalities - everything to be violent myself with a bad kamma). When I turned to non-violence, all violence disappeared around me. Only a remnant remained in that I fought (mostly in thoughts, but also in deeds (like now)) not islamists or other narrow minded zealots, but evil in general. So I had to endure the power of Mara (in general). The fight was so intense and the pains so unbearable that I had to commit suicide. I missed myself. My carotid wasn't cut properly. After undergoing surgery, I stopped meditating until I realized that fighting is a lost theme. You cannot fight the power of the world. And that power is the islamist that invades you, as well as the guy who tries to "defend" you.
All you can do is try to unbind and stay mindful so as to protect others. As far as protecting yourself, just be mindfully peaceful and stay out of the battle.

Karuna.


P.S. You will excuse me if I do not answer or continue to write on this thread; but all this is just raising akusala feelings in me. And this is what I have to fight against now.
Last edited by cobwith on Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

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