Thai translation help

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Buckwheat
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Thai translation help

Post by Buckwheat » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:11 pm

I'm a musician and tempted to title a collection of music "farang music". How would I say "music" in Thai? Also, any suggestion for synonyms would be appreciated.

Thanks,
:anjali:
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Music
ดนตรี (pronounced don-dtrii)

'Farang music' in Thai would be spoken as 'music farang', as the adjective follows the noun.
ดนตรีฝรั่ง

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daverupa
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by daverupa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:15 pm

Does this exist as a current phrase with idiomatic meaning, by chance?
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 pm

Music
ดนตรี (pronounced don-dtrii)

'Farang music' in Thai would be spoken as 'music farang', as the adjective follows the noun.
ดนตรีฝรั่ง
I am not Thai, so asking here would possibly be better.
http://www.thai-language.com/forums/f/translation/basic

Buckwheat
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Buckwheat » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:09 am

thank you. I will check out the link.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:38 am

Buckwheat wrote:I'm a musician and tempted to title a collection of music "farang music". How would I say "music" in Thai? Also, any suggestion for synonyms would be appreciated.
I think Western music which has reached an international audience, or whose creator intends that it will do so, would be more naturally referred to as don-trii saakon than don-trii farang. Saakon is from the Sanskrit sākalya, meaning 'universal', but in Thai usage it tends to imply 'western'.

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:50 pm

Dhammanando wrote:I think Western music which has reached an international audience, or whose creator intends that it will do so, would be more naturally referred to as don-trii saakon than don-trii farang. Saakon is from the Sanskrit sākalya, meaning 'universal', but in Thai usage it tends to imply 'western'.
That is an interesting word. Somewhat of a more polite term than farang. How do you spell it in Thai? Also, how common/used/known is the word?

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Dhammanando
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:11 pm

samseva wrote:How do you spell it in Thai?
สากล
samseva wrote:Also, how common/used/known is the word?
It's very common, though one has to learn on a case by case basis when to use each term. Chewing gum, for example, is called หมากฝรั่ง ("white man's betel") and parsley is ผักชีฝรั่ง ("white man's cilantro"), but western-style boxing is called มวยสากล ("universal boxing") and the adjective or adverb แบบสากล ("universal-style") in practice means "western-style" or often simply "modern".

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:16 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
samseva wrote:How do you spell it in Thai?
สากล
samseva wrote:Also, how common/used/known is the word?
It's very common, though one has to learn on a case by case basis when to use each term. Chewing gum, for example, is called หมากฝรั่ง ("white man's betel") and parsley is ผักชีฝรั่ง ("white man's cilantro"), but western-style boxing is called มวยสากล ("universal boxing") and the adjective or adverb แบบสากล ("universal-style") in practice means "western-style" or often simply "modern".
Is it common in everyday conversation or is it used more for publication and to be politically correct? Such as saying นักท่องเที่ยวสากล?

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Dhammanando
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:35 pm

samseva wrote:Is it common in everyday conversation or is it used more for publication and to be politically correct? Such as saying นักท่องเที่ยวสากล?
Yes, it's common. It's not one of the words that's specific to literary Thai, nor is it a PC word, nor is it simply interchangeable with ฝรั่ง. There are some contexts where you would use one word, some where you'd use the other, some where either can be used and both will have the same meaning, and some where either can be used but their meanings will be different. Hence my earlier statement: one has to learn on a case by case basis when to use each term.

In the case of นักท่องเที่ยวสากล, this would mean global or international tourists and wouldn't necessarily imply westerners.

If a Thai wants to say 'westerners' but doesn't want to use ฝรั่ง (e.g. if she doesn't want to limit the term to Caucasians from western countries) then she would say ชาว (or คน) ตะวันตก. In this context if one were to replace ตะวันตก with สากล it would no longer mean either 'Caucasian' or 'westerner', but rather a 'cosmopolitan person' [of any nationality].

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Anagarika
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Anagarika » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:12 am

This is a little off topic, but my question is this: for those who can speak and read Thai reasonably well, what method (other than living in country) proved to be most useful? I have downloaded the complete Pimsleur Thai course, and am at square one reading Thai consonants, vowels and tones. I am having (tongue in cheek) traumatic flashbacks of high school Spanish and "¿Dónde está la biblioteca?"

Is the Pimsleur course a good move, and short of moving back to Thailand, has anyone any good suggestions? Securing a Thai girlfriend is not an option, for me. :)
Last edited by Anagarika on Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:22 am

Dhammanando wrote:Yes, it's common. It's not one of the words that's specific to literary Thai, nor is it a PC word, nor is it simply interchangeable with ฝรั่ง. There are some contexts where you would use one word, some where you'd use the other, some where either can be used and both will have the same meaning, and some where either can be used but their meanings will be different. Hence my earlier statement: one has to learn on a case by case basis when to use each term.

In the case of นักท่องเที่ยวสากล, this would mean global or international tourists and wouldn't necessarily imply westerners.

If a Thai wants to say 'westerners' but doesn't want to use ฝรั่ง (e.g. if she doesn't want to limit the term to Caucasians from western countries) then she would say ชาว (or คน) ตะวันตก. In this context if one were to replace ตะวันตก with สากล it would no longer mean either 'Caucasian' or 'westerner', but rather a 'cosmopolitan person' [of any nationality].
Thank you Bhante.

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:39 am

Anagarika wrote:This is a little off topic, but my question is this: for those who can speak and read Thai reasonably well, what method (other than living in country) proved to be most useful. I have downloaded the complete Pimsleur Thai course, and am at square one reading Thai consonants, vowels and tones. I am having (tongue in cheek) traumatic flashbacks of high school Spanish and "¿Dónde está la biblioteca?"

Is the Pimsleur course a good move, and short of moving back to Thailand, has anyone any good suggestions? Securing a Thai girlfriend in not an option, for me. :)
You won't get anywhere with Pimsleur. It is not good at all. It spends so much time on a single sentence when you could learn it in less than 5 minutes with other material. I bought it, listened to it a bit and now it is in a box collecting dust.

A very good Thai language author that I would recommend is Benjawan Poomsan Becker. I would suggest Thai for Beginners and Thai for Intermediate Learners, which both come with CDs (although you need to buy them separately). I would also suggest her Talking Thai-English Dictionary application (available for iPhone, Android and Windows), which is a very valuable tool (the print version is also very good). You can look up words, both in Thai and English, and listen to an audio file for every word. However, don't bother with the phrasebook application since it will be included with the 2.0 update of the dictionary, along with features such as favourites.

There is other material which is good, but with these you are off to a good start. If you have any questions regarding other material, feel free to PM me.

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samseva
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by samseva » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:43 am

Anagarika wrote:This is a little off topic, but my question is this: for those who can speak and read Thai reasonably well, what method (other than living in country) proved to be most useful?
For the Thai script, Arthit Juyaso's Read Thai in 10 Days is very thorough and good.

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Anagarika
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Re: Thai translation help

Post by Anagarika » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:46 am

samseva wrote:
Anagarika wrote:
There is other material which is good, but with these you are off to a good start. If you have any questions regarding other material, feel free to PM me.
Samseva, thanks so much for this advice. Benjawan Poomsan Becker wasn't even on my radar, and I have your link for the purchase: http://www.paiboonpublishing.com/details.php?prodId=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ขอขอบคุณ!
Last edited by Anagarika on Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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