Page 2 of 8

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:37 pm
by DNS
mal4mac wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:... if you were born in 19th century Poland to a Hassidic Jewish family your fate was pretty much sealed what you would do, who you would marry, even what clothes you can wear -- for life. Your chance for even hearing the word Dhamma is slim to nil. Of course in some instances this is still the case, but the numbers sealed to such a fate is dwindling.
Isn't there a Jewish spiritual path? Having choices like "marriage" and " clothes" taken care of seems somewhat appealing to me - positive psychologist Barry Schwartz argues convincingly that having so many choices causes incredible stress. With universal knowledge & travel we are faced with the stress of choosing between every spiritual path that has ever been written down, or is still practiced. It's not obvious to me that this is a better situation than going with the path you were born with (as long as it is rich enough...)
It is true I suppose that having little to no freedom can be less stressful, for example, there is no stress in looking for a job (one is decided for you based on family or caste), there is no stress in finding a gf, bf, or spouse (arranged marriage), etc. But do you really want your parents and community to choose your lifelong spouse? What if you are a woman and you are in a misogynistic culture? What if you are gay?

I prefer the freedom of choice. Most everything worth achieving comes with some stress, be it an education (stressful going to school), finding a spouse, a career, business, practicing long meditation sessions is also stressful, going to long retreats is also stressful.
No_Mind wrote:I am alone and a failure in eyes of society; I have suffered in most ways possible except cancer or amputation .. but I choose to be happy
:hello: You are not alone. :tongue:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:39 pm
by samseva
No_Mind wrote:This is why I have not contributed to this wonderful forum for nearly a year. Some members seem to believe that it is the duty of every Buddhist to be as pessimistic as possible. I am sorry I cannot walk around as if the weight of this world is on my shoulders. If that makes me any less a Buddhist .. so be it.

As long as I live, I choose to live joyously, I choose to believe that good will prevail over evil, I choose to believe that truth alone triumphs, I choose to believe that the world will soon be a place where the mind is without fear and the head is held high.
Living joyously and accepting (often negative) current world affairs are not exclusive. The only important thing is to neither become overly joyous or pessimistic.

I find negativity to balance our current (mostly western) blinded paradise. It develops dispassion (virāga) and urgency (saṃvega).

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:44 pm
by Sam Vara
An "achievement" is something that has been produced or accomplished, and that is judged to have positive value. Tell me what you value, and I'll tell you what humanity has achieved. If you enjoy music, you will probably think that Beethoven and Bach or <insert composer or player of choice> have achieved a few things. If you are a connoisseur of chocolate, then you might be able to provide names of a few great chocolatiers and their greatest moments, and so on...

The reverse is also true. Tell us what you think humanity has achieved, or conversely what it has not achieved, and you will be revealing what you value.

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:26 pm
by SarathW
Buddha said that is not a Human.
At least six billion human think that union with God is their highest and ultimate achievement.
Transcending the human state may be the highest achievement.
:thinking:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:47 pm
by SDC
samseva wrote:Seriously, what has humanity actually achieved in the past few 100 000 years?
Image

'nough said...








:tongue:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:00 pm
by SDC
And this:

Image

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:53 pm
by DNS

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:17 pm
by Ceisiwr
A greater understanding of the universe and ourselves, with more to come :)

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:20 pm
by No_Mind
clw_uk wrote:A greater understanding of the universe and ourselves, with more to come :)
That is a great answer :clap:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:25 pm
by SDC
David N. Snyder wrote:That's cheating. :tongue:
Hike for my turns?!!!

:tongue:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:28 am
by samseva
Sam Vara wrote:An "achievement" is something that has been produced or accomplished, and that is judged to have positive value. Tell me what you value, and I'll tell you what humanity has achieved. If you enjoy music, you will probably think that Beethoven and Bach or <insert composer or player of choice> have achieved a few things. If you are a connoisseur of chocolate, then you might be able to provide names of a few great chocolatiers and their greatest moments, and so on...

The reverse is also true. Tell us what you think humanity has achieved, or conversely what it has not achieved, and you will be revealing what you value.
Truth, kindness, generosity, honesty, integrity, equality, peace, intelligence, altruism, compassion, contribution, fairness, freedom, respect, modesty, resourcefulness, harmony, humility, nature, life, patience, selflessness, non-violence and many more.

I would add education and philanthropy to the ones I listed in the original post.

I guess I am expecting humanity to have already reached a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed. What I mostly see is the same humans as 5000-10 000 years ago, but with many technologically advanced and complicated toys.

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:36 am
by Ceisiwr
Samseva -
I guess I am expecting humanity to have already reached a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed. What I mostly see is the same humans as 5000-10 000 years ago, but with many technologically advanced and complicated toys.

I had no idea you were a Communist :)

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:43 am
by samseva
clw_uk wrote:
I guess I am expecting humanity to have already reached a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed. What I mostly see is the same humans as 5000-10 000 years ago, but with many technologically advanced and complicated toys.
I had no idea you were a Communist :)
I have no idea how you can see communism in the above paragraph, especially since I didn't mention ownership in any way.

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:01 am
by Ceisiwr
samseva wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
I guess I am expecting humanity to have already reached a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed. What I mostly see is the same humans as 5000-10 000 years ago, but with many technologically advanced and complicated toys.
I had no idea you were a Communist :)
I have no idea how you can see communism in the above paragraph, especially since I didn't mention ownership in any way.

Have you read Das Kapital, The German Ideology or Anti-Duhring?


A communist society is a classless, moneyless and stateless society. It's a society where power is spread amongst the people, where money is superfluous and where mans nature has shifted from an egotistical bent to an altruistic bent. In essence it's, as you say, "a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed."

Not only that but you started to discuss primitive communist systems, but then imagined this system but with the an advanced level of technology. Your analogy was identical to analogies employed by Marx and Engles in their works.

I only asked it you were a Communist, as your post was textbook Marxism. It would have been praised by Marx and Engles :smile:

Re: What has humanity actually achieved?

Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:04 am
by No_Mind
samseva wrote: Truth, kindness, generosity, honesty, integrity, equality, peace, intelligence, altruism, compassion, contribution, fairness, freedom, respect, modesty, resourcefulness, harmony, humility, nature, life, patience, selflessness, non-violence and many more.

I would add education and philanthropy to the ones I listed in the original post.

I guess I am expecting humanity to have already reached a kind of civilization where the structure is based on values rather than power, money, survival and basically greed. What I mostly see is the same humans as 5000-10 000 years ago, but with many technologically advanced and complicated toys.
Samseva, at one time 100 years back it was common for Indian Maharajas to kill 5 tigers for fun (the Rolls Royce indicates he must have been a Maharaja)

Image

The above picture is not possible anymore. Killing of Cecil the lion created a ruckus two weeks ago.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have given away most of their wealth to not-for-profit projects (other billionaires are also doing same.)

Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr, Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi showed non violence can succeed.

People are more educated and aware now than before. An example .. in a regrettable episode yesterday in Bombay a man performed a lewd act on the street in front of an American woman. He has a warrant out for his arrest and many Indians have expressed horror and disgust on social media. This would not have been possible 20 years ago because no one had a camera phone and there was no social media.

Give it some time .. another few centuries. The growth of human consciousness over past few decades has shown it is on an exponential trajectory.

Btw - can anyone tell me if it is legal to copy paste link of a photograph as I have done or did I break any copyright law ? This image is from wikimedia commons but what about other photos?

Reason for edits - grammar