World Cup 2010

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World Cup 2010

Post by DNS » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:42 am

The World Cup is coming in about a year for any of you soccer (football) fans out there. So just for fun, I made the following DhammaWiki page:

http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Soccer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by zavk » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:30 am

Hi David,

I used to follow the English Premiership, maybe ten years ago or so, but I don't follow it much these days. But I always get excited when the FIFA World Cup comes along. So I always have a soft sport for the England national team. However, their performance at the international level has always been, well, lackluster.

To me, this is the one sport that I would call football. :tongue:

Can't wait.
With metta,
zavk

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by DNS » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:04 am

zavk wrote: But I always get excited when the FIFA World Cup comes along.
Hi zavk,

Me too. I am a "fan" twice every four years for a few months when the men's competition starts and then also a year later when the women's competition starts.

A couple of years ago, I was the only one in my family to get up at 3 am our time to watch the German women rack up another title for Deutschland, my birth country.

:woohoo:

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Naturally, as an Englishman, I am quite the football fan!
zavk wrote:So I always have a soft sport for the England national team. However, their performance at the international level has always been, well, lackluster.
I know what you mean. However, England have qualified for the World Cup with an impressive 8 wins out of 8 in their qualifying group this time, including 4-1 and 5-1 wins over a strong Croatia side. Fabio Capello has really turned the team around after Steve McClaren's miserable spell. There is a feeling that with such a world-class manager at the helm, anything is possible.

Maybe it's something to do with being fellow English-speakers, or perhaps that their best players ply their trade in England, but I do have a soft spot for the Australian and American national teams, as well as Germany (I am a big fan of the Bundesliga), Ireland (same reason as USA/Oz) and Japan.

In fact, I used to have an old Australian friend who used to hate football with a passion, his argument being the prevalence of diving and cheating, and I managed to convince him to follow Australia at the 2006 World Cup. He seemed to get into it, but of course, in the end Australia were undone against eventual champions Italy after a dive earned them a last minute penalty.

There are some bad points in football, but the good far outweighs the bad for me!

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:55 am

Greetings pmwhewitt,
pmwhewitt wrote:In fact, I used to have an old Australian friend who used to hate football with a passion, his argument being the prevalence of diving and cheating, and I managed to convince him to follow Australia at the 2006 World Cup. He seemed to get into it, but of course, in the end Australia were undone against eventual champions Italy after a dive earned them a last minute penalty.
Indeed, this is one of the main reasons Australians generally, aren't that interested in soccer. Arguably, the two most popular "spectator sports" in Australia are Cricket and Australian Rules Football.

In cricket, the umpires make the decisions and there's not much that players can do to trick umpires or twist decisions in their favour. The umpire calls it as they see it, and that's that.

In Australian Rules Football there's a little bit of scope for "simulation" but the absolute worst case is that this results in a free kick and the team that was gifted a free kick scores a goal which is worth 6 points. However, in this form of football, the average score is somewhere in the order of 80-110 points, so 6 points infrequently determines the end result.

However, in soccer, a "successful" dive in the box is expected to result in a goal, and the majority of professional soccer games have the result (win, draw, loss) decided by a single goal.

That such theatrics can win you the game, is something that Australians will not abide, regardless of how good a sport soccer is otherwise. The only people really interested in soccer are those who grew up with it, who are prepared to overlook this blight on the game. Those brought up on Rugby League or Aussie Rules Football are not likely to convert to Soccer as their football of choice. This is why I like the Scottish Football League, because it is harder and both the league and the supporters are less tolerant of diving and other such nonsense.

Yes, when the World Cup comes around there will be some interest in Australia, but the interest isn't really sustained beyond that.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by DNS » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:44 pm

retrofuturist wrote: However, in soccer, a "successful" dive in the box is expected to result in a goal, and the majority of professional soccer games have the result (win, draw, loss) decided by a single goal.
That is the same reason that soccer [football] is not popular in the U.S. either. Also, the boredom and low scoring. In the U.S., the most popular sports are American football, baseball, and basketball.

There is a solution to solve both problems:

* Red card the players who take dives. Already some referees have been giving some yellow cards to players who act it out. Make it a red card. Sometimes it is hard to tell, I know, so use instant replay. Instant replay is used in American sports and in tennis for some close calls.

* Eliminate the 'offsides' rule. It makes the games too low scoring and from what I understand about this rule, it penalizes a forward for out-racing a defender. Why??

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:53 pm

TheDhamma wrote: * Eliminate the 'offsides' rule. It makes the games too low scoring and from what I understand about this rule, it penalizes a forward for out-racing a defender. Why??
Not quite. The offside rule only denies a player from being closer to the oppositions goal than all the opposing teams outfield players, this is to stop players from just camping out in each others boxes, and instead having to work their way forward. If you are behind at least one defender when the ball leaves the passers foot, but then you outrun the defenders, that is perfectly acceptable.

Also, there are some traditionalists who feel that using video technology takes away from the referees authority and slows the game down. In fact, this took a bizarre turn last June in the 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup when English referee Howard Webb and Australian official Matthew Breeze purportedly used replays when they awarded Brazil an injury-time penalty against Egypt with the scores at 3-3. The Egyptian complaint was something along the lines of "While we admit the decision was a correct one, we feel that the use of instant replays goes against the laws of FIFA". Thankfully, FIFA instantly came out in defence of Webb and Breeze.

On another note, I think the opinions on diving change dramatically through culture. Whilst it happens on occasion, it is very much a taboo in English football, Arsenal's striker Eduardo da Silva recently dived in an important UEFA Champion's League qualifying game against Celtic and has been the victim of something of a hate campaign from opposition supporters since. Meanwhile in Italy (according to former footballer Gianluca Vialli's book), diving is very much a part of the game, and it is often seen as a defenders failure if they allow a player to get in a position to dive, rather than the diver himself!

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by DNS » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:00 pm

pmwhewitt wrote: Not quite. The offside rule only denies a player from being closer to the oppositions goal than all the opposing teams outfield players, this is to stop players from just camping out in each others boxes, and instead having to work their way forward. If you are behind at least one defender when the ball leaves the passers foot, but then you outrun the defenders, that is perfectly acceptable.
Hi pm,

Thanks for the info. What would be wrong with some players camping out in each others' boxes? If that would be detrimental to the game, how about a 'time limit' on how long a forward/striker could stay in the other box? I think basketball has a rule where a player cannot stay longer than 3 seconds in the paint. Since the football field is much larger, how about a time limit of 30 seconds?

Not that we have any power to change the rules, but curious as to your view on that possibility.

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:02 pm

Greetings,

The thing is... if there were no offsite rule, and someone does camp up in the forward line, surely their direct opponent would stay there too, to guard them? It would be negligent on the defenders part to leave a free opposition player alone in attack.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:09 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
pmwhewitt wrote: Not quite. The offside rule only denies a player from being closer to the oppositions goal than all the opposing teams outfield players, this is to stop players from just camping out in each others boxes, and instead having to work their way forward. If you are behind at least one defender when the ball leaves the passers foot, but then you outrun the defenders, that is perfectly acceptable.
Hi pm,

Thanks for the info. What would be wrong with some players camping out in each others' boxes? If that would be detrimental to the game, how about a 'time limit' on how long a forward/striker could stay in the other box? I think basketball has a rule where a player cannot stay longer than 3 seconds in the paint. Since the football field is much larger, how about a time limit of 30 seconds?

Not that we have any power to change the rules, but curious as to your view on that possibility.
Good evening :)

I think the issue would be the game would be too spread out. The strikers would run right to the goal-line and naturally defenders would follow, which means that players would resort to hoofing the ball to each other as they'd all be too far away from each other. Offside can be an odd one to grasp but it does keep the game exciting in my opinion. I actually really like football as a low-scoring game, it makes a goal that much more important and valuable.

On another note, some of you may find this BBC article interesting... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 128542.stm

With metta,

- Perry

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:05 pm

FINAL LIST OF QUALIFIED NATIONS FOR THE 2010 FIFA WORLD CUP

Africa
Algeria (qualified 18th November 2009)
Cameroon (qualified 14th November 2009)
Ghana (qualified 6th September 2009)
Ivory Coast (qualified 10th October 2009)
Nigeria (qualified 14th November 2009)
South Africa (qualified 15th May 2004)

Asia
Australia (qualified 6th June 2009)
Japan (qualified 6th June 2009)
North Korea (qualified 6th June 2009)
South Korea (qualified 6th June 2009)

Europe
Denmark (qualified 10th October 2009)
England (qualified 9th September 2009)
France (qualified 18th November 2009)
Germany (qualified 10th October 2009)
Greece (qualified 18th November 2009)
Italy (qualified 10th October 2009)
Netherlands (qualified 6th June 2009)
Portugal (qualified 18th November 2009)
Serbia (qualified 10th October 2009)
Slovakia (qualified 14th October 2009)
Slovenia (qualified 18th November 2009)
Spain (qualified 9th September 2009)
Switzerland (qualified 14th October 2009)

North America
Honduras (qualified 14th October 2009)
Mexico (qualified 10th October 2009)
United States (qualified 10th October 2009)

Oceania
New Zealand (qualified 14th November 2009)

South America
Argentina (qualified 14th October 2009)
Brazil (qualified 5th September 2009)
Chile (qualified 10th October 2009)
Paraguay (qualified 9th September 2009)
Uruguay (qualified 18th November 2009)
Last edited by Perry on Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:25 am, edited 19 times in total.

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by DNS » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:42 pm

Thanks for that list. The fact that the whole world participates and that you need 2 to 3 years to get the final pool of participants, builds-up the hype nicely for sports fans.

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:20 pm

Ivory Coast became the third African nation, and twelfth overall, to qualify for the 2010 FIFA World Cup today after a 1-1 draw with Malawi meant they cannot be overtaken from the summit of their group.

Today is also the penultimate day in European qualification (I believe the final day is on Wednesday), so expect this to be a busy thread tonight! I will update the previous post accordingly.

The qualifier to watch today is definitely Russia vs. Germany, who have been back-and-forth leaders of Group 4 since it began, and this game will essentially confirm who will win the group and who will be moving into the playoffs. In the event of a draw, Germany will lead the group by a solitary point, and a German win at home to Finland on Wednesday would confirm group victory.

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by PeterB » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:43 pm

I think for the first time in decades the English national side have a manager in Capello who has brought together the individual talents and egos and actually forged a formidible team. Even my Scots heart is moved to admiration and grudging support...They will do well. of that I am sure.

:toast:

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Re: World Cup 2010

Post by Perry » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:16 pm

Germany have sealed qualification with a well-fought 1-0 win in Russia.
PeterB wrote:I think for the first time in decades the English national side have a manager in Capello who has brought together the individual talents and egos and actually forged a formidible team. Even my Scots heart is moved to admiration and grudging support...They will do well. of that I am sure.

:toast:
I hope you're right, but as can be seen in the game against Ukraine right now, Capello desperately needs to iron out the defensive errors, there seems to be at least one schoolboy error every game, we might as well start with -1! The goalkeepers don't exactly fill me with confidence either, I was really hoping Ben Foster and Joe Hart would step up to the plate this year but have been underwhelming so far. Even with these problems, if Wayne Rooney continues his current form, we could still make an impression. I think semi-finals is a fair expectation, after two consecutive quarter-final eliminations.

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