Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance and Wi

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:35 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Obama is the figure head for US policy and promoting US interests and values, which are out of sync with many. Criticism is justified and essential.
What is "out of sync" for many is that he is a black man, an in your face example of how the United States is changing, and this scares the bejesus out of a lot of people. His politics are centrist and at times a bit to the right. He has been quite willing to negotiate and to compromise, but the opposing party has not. When he has proposed or gotten behind what had been Republican policies and laws the Republican party, in turn, has shifted position and opposed what was being backed by Obama, and at times to the detriment of this country. There is a very core criticism that Obama has gotten, and continues to get, that is not justified nor essential, but grounded in fear and hatred.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Mr Man wrote:An idea that those who are critical of Obama are haters and that they are motivated by resentment because he is a "shining example of what they refuse to become—a civil, considerate, rational, and powerful (in his own self) human being." is an undemocratic idea.
And we, in the US, have just been through a shining example of undemocratic behavior, primarily directed at Obama, that, had it been allowed to go to its desired (by the extreme wing of the Republican Party) end, would have not only severely damaged America but the whole world economy.

A caricature, to be sure, but neatly highlights the Tea Party/Republican behavior:

>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

rohana
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by rohana » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Also, Fox news is not operating in a vacuum. They didn't create some anti-Obama sentiment out of thin air. They're simply fueling an already existing paranoia. See Nixon's Southern Strategy.
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:40 pm

Malala Yousafzai asks President Barack Obama to end drone strikes in Pakistan

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ma-2365855

The video clip is nice (it is from the Daily Show though).

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:42 pm

Mr Man wrote:Malala Yousafzai asks President Barack Obama to end drone strikes in Pakistan

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ma-2365855

The video clip is nice (it is from the Daily Show though).
And that relates to what we are discussing how?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:55 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Malala Yousafzai asks President Barack Obama to end drone strikes in Pakistan

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ma-2365855

The video clip is nice (it is from the Daily Show though).
And that relates to what we are discussing how?
Read the first paragraph of the article linked to in the OP.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:03 pm

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Malala Yousafzai asks President Barack Obama to end drone strikes in Pakistan

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ma-2365855

The video clip is nice (it is from the Daily Show though).
And that relates to what we are discussing how?
Read the first paragraph of the article linked to in the OP.
The question that frames the OP: Are these accurate descriptions of this segment in american politics?

In other words what you are doing here is taking a discussion of internal US politics and trying to push it in another direction without any justification. If you want to discuss the drone business, start a new thread.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:15 pm

I don't want to discuss the drone stakes but drone strikes are dictated by the politics of the US and Obama, but I think you are forcing this off topic.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:19 pm

Mr Man wrote:I don't want to discuss the drone stakes but drone strikes are dictated by the politics of the US and Obama, but I think you are forcing this off topic.
You have yet to show how what you have posted relates to the OP and to what has been discussed so far.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:34 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:I don't want to discuss the drone stakes but drone strikes are dictated by the politics of the US and Obama, but I think you are forcing this off topic.
You have yet to show how what you have posted relates to the OP and to what has been discussed so far.
I have already posted why I think it relates but if you don't think it does so be it. Maybe we should move on now?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:47 pm

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:I don't want to discuss the drone stakes but drone strikes are dictated by the politics of the US and Obama, but I think you are forcing this off topic.
You have yet to show how what you have posted relates to the OP and to what has been discussed so far.
I have already posted why I think it relates but if you don't think it does so be it. Maybe we should move on now?
I am simply asking you to clarify, to draw out, to explain, to plainly show why you think the msg in question relates what is being discussed. I looked at the first paragraph as you suggested, it is not all clear or obvious what you are getting at by your post. Please, take the time and explain what your point is by that post.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:16 pm

Well there are many rational reasons to be critical of the Obama presidencies. Malala Yousafzai is critical of the drone strikes because she thinks they fuel terrorism and because innocent people are killed. I don't think that she is a hater or his moral inferior.

Now if this topic was meant to be about the shutdown and US internal political manoeuvring then yes my posts may have missed the mark but this thread had already rambled and wobbled and possibly the intention of the OP was not that clear. Some may enjoy to read about Malala and listen to her speak.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:29 pm

Mr Man wrote:Well there are many rational reasons to be critical of the Obama presidencies. Malala Yousafzai is critical of the drone strikes because she thinks they fuel terrorism and because innocent people are killed. I don't think that she is a hater or his moral inferior.

Now if this topic was meant to be about the shutdown and US internal political manoeuvring then yes my posts may have missed the mark but this thread had already rambled and wobbled and possibly the intention of the OP was not that clear. Some may enjoy to read about Malala and listen to her speak.
That is all very nice, but it does seem that the article referenced in the OP and the framing question are point to the oposition players in the rather dramatic struggle over the government shutdown and the debt ceiling business, and that is pretty much what has been discussed here. Malala is one very exceptional human being, exemplifying the best of Gandhi, but her example does not, sadly, negate the, to use your words, undemocratic behavior exemplified in recent events in this country.
Mr Man wrote:An idea that those who are critical of Obama are haters and that they are motivated by resentment because he is a "shining example of what they refuse to become—a civil, considerate, rational, and powerful (in his own self) human being." is an undemocratic idea.
Malala is a "civil, considerate, rational, and powerful (in her own self) human being." But, alas, I don't think the article (though she is mentioned) or the OP is talking about her as being a hater; rather, the OP is talking about those who would actually do harm their own country than see Obama succeed. And that is what has been, for the most part, discussed here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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purple planet
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by purple planet » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:35 pm

I will try to explain :

this thread was about an article - which started with
Many haters of Barack Obama claim his policies are stifling their freedom. In fact, they dislike him because he's a shining example of what they refuse to become—a civil, considerate, rational, and powerful (in his own self) human being. They want to tear him down so he doesn't make them feel so personally inadequate.


personally ti think thats a bombastic statement with a condescending tone to it - personally i dislike obamas polices and i dont think i feel this way because obama is so good looking and i am ugly so im jealous of him (jk)

i didnt want to talk about obamas politics - i wanted to address how outrages that paragraph is - i believe this is what mr man is saying (right?) - i guess its not about the what is said but how its said

i probobly did this in an un-smart way ( im not obama after all ;) ) wasnt clear enough and this all thread got derailed

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Mr Man
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Re: Haters Holding US Hostage Embraced Denial, Resistance an

Post by Mr Man » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:48 pm

tiltbillings wrote:the OP and the framing question are point to the oposition players in the rather dramatic struggle over the government shutdown and the debt ceiling business, and that is pretty much what has been discussed here.
Not sure about that. There is plenty that has happened in conversation has not been focused (on the govt. shutdown) read the first few pages, even if that was what the op was wanting.

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