Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
pilgrim
Posts: 1519
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by pilgrim » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:13 pm

Who taught him to use a gun? Buddhism or the Navy?

User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by appicchato » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:07 pm

'No true scotsman' fallacy.
:coffee:

dagon
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by dagon » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:29 pm

Headlines sell news papers and other media.

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”
― Mark Twain

metta
paul

User avatar
purple planet
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:07 am
Location: Israel

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by purple planet » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:14 pm

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.”
― Mark Twain
lol :lol: so true
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

User avatar
Still Searching
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by Still Searching » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:39 pm

appicchato wrote:A 'Buddhist' would not have done what this guy did...end of... :candle:
Agreed! That man is no Buddhist. Hopefully he was sick or had psychological problems and will learn from his mistakes.
pilgrim wrote:Who taught him to use a gun? Buddhism or the Navy?
Buddhism would not teach this man such an act of cruelty, Buddhism only promotes Truth, Peace & Tranquillity.
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Siddhārtha, Gautama Buddha

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 pm

Viscid wrote:Truly bizarre.. It'll be interesting to see how it led to this-- how someone who is attracted to a religion which so emphatically denounces violence can murder so many people.

"the sleep of reason produces nightmares"
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
mirco
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist taking SSRI?

Post by mirco » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:14 pm


According to his father, Aaron Alexis suffered from PTSD since he actively participated in rescue efforts on 9/11 and was treated for mental health issues.

Today, it's common to treat PTS-Disorder with SSRI antidepressant.

Popular SSRI product are among the ten worst prescription drug offenders that cause patients to become violent.

In the last 25 years psychiatric medication has been involved with at least 31 mass shootings....

google for "ssri side effects violence".




No idea, if he was taking psychiatric medication, just wondering...
Image
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

befriend
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by befriend » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:46 pm

if hearing voices was the cause of violent behavior the amount of violent acts would be incredibly larger than what it is. dont attach to your opinions based on specious reasoning.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

Jhana4
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Location: U.S.A., Northeast

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by Jhana4 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:02 am

Nobody likes it when people with the same affiliations/demographics as theirs publicly does things they and everyone else would object to. That is something everyone here with an interest in Buddhism has to accept, as well as people with mental illness. It happened, those things are who the shooter is.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

Pacific
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by Pacific » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:34 am

many many people have their head in the sand when it comes to the kind of people who are attracted to Buddhism. The comments on that article denouncing it as offensive and trashy are pretty predictable. People don't just become "Buddhist" and then everything is peace and love. They are still people, they still suffer and have issue & sometimes those issues are quite serious. The article raises that point and I think it's important. If you hang around "western" temples long enough you might pick up on it. I've seen it myself. There are many who are mentally and emotionally unstable and so it goes in any religion. I can't speak for Buddhists in say Thailand but perhaps it's a similar situation...
Many with serious psychological disorders are attracted to religion, it gives security and safety. But, if you are not Thai or Chinese or whatever and you are hanging around as a westerner in these temples you might (or might not if you are lucky) quickly find barriers of language and culture. I know I did, that's why I had to look elsewhere. My attendance at the local Wat fell away when I realised I had to find a group to cater to my western upbringing and really I don't see what the problem is in doing that. Some temples are not much more than hangouts for the local Thai or Korean expat community and it's hard to get the support you really need in your practice. Buddhism can be very culturally specific but many want to overlook this. This has been my experience.

I found that article told some truths that many won't acknowledge. It's not about Buddhism or religion, it's about people and the questions being asked are valid.
Why did he want to become a monk? I once wanted to myself, because I thought I could somehow avoid living in the "real world" that way. I doubt that feeling is uncommon. But sometimes the best place for someone is not a temple or a meditation cushion, it's a psychiatric hospital.

befriend
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by befriend » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:07 am

the mind is incredibly complex, with that being said we cant pigeonhole this case as "oh he heard voices that's the reason he killed people".
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

User avatar
Still Searching
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:28 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by Still Searching » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:12 am

@Pacific

I have to agree. A lot of people use Buddhism as an accessory, they'll call themselves a Buddhist and do not study, they'll fill their home with Buddha sculptures and light candles everywhere and then they go partying with friends, do drugs and such.

But yes, a Buddhist can be unwell, I'm a lay Buddhist and I suffer from depression and anxiety. I stress a lot too.

You're right, he was still a human being. I'm sure somewhere deep down, he's hurting too and feels bad.
Sometimes people snap for no reason out of nowhere and it's unexplainable.
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Siddhārtha, Gautama Buddha

dagon
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist taking SSRI?

Post by dagon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:52 am

According to his father, Aaron Alexis suffered from PTSD since he actively participated in rescue efforts on 9/11 and was treated for mental health issues ....

The father along with the rest of Aaron Alexis family are some of the victims of the tragic events, along with the deceased, their relatives, coworkers .... regardless of the circumstances Aaron Alexis is accountable for the suffering of all those his action affected. It is natural that the father would be suffering along with others affected and would be trying t0 seek reasons why his son acted as he did. The point is that the father said his son had PTSD but we dont know the basis for that statement - we can only speculate. If he did have PTSD we dont know what he was being treated with, we can only speculate. If he was on medications we can only speculate. If he was on medication we can only speculate what medication. If he was on prescription medications we can only speculate if they were prescribed to him. If they were prescribed to him we can only speculate if he was taking them as prescribed. If both of those conditions are met we can only speculate what other non prescription drugs he was taking and what effects the interaction of drugs and his medication and medical conditions were. So in short we have speculations based on speculations ........

PTSD is normally associated with long term exposure to traumatic events - typical military active duty over time or people who are victims of long term abusive violence such as women who have suffered domestic violence over time. In the 9/11 events there were those that were involved in the rescue for a matter of hours and those that were involved over months - it is likely that it would be ones with the long term involvement that would be more likely to suffer PTSD - even then many would not suffer PTSD especially if they received ongoing counselling as i would speculate would be the case.

What the emerging body of evidence from a wide range of sources would indicate is that Aaron Alexis was suffering from a mental disorder - hardly surprising when nearly 30% of of population do in any given year. Most are not diagnosed, many are misdiagnosed and many try to self medicate often making their problems worse. Some of the reasons for this is self denial, denial by families, poor access to doctors and medication (often associated with costs in the USA). We all add to this problem by the way that we respond to mental disorders and those who suffer from them. Our actions/intentions are part of the problem - so we all have to take some responsibility for the outcomes. We have aversion to those with mental disorders - think about this in the context of what The Buddha taught, we should reflect on out own actions!!!

What the emerging body of evidence from a wide range of sources would indicate is that Aaron Alexis was abusing alcohol. this is a problem in its self as alcohol is proven to be a cause of violence through intoxication, its effects on mental disorders and the effects of its interaction with other drugs (prescription medications included). When treating PTSD one of the first things that needs to occur is for the sufferer to resolve the alcohol issues before treatment for the actual PTSD can really begin.

The tragedy of the death of the victims happens on that day but the tragedy was many years in the making. The tragedy not only consists of the action of Aaron Alexis, it also includes the actions and inaction of many others. For example the Navy discharged him because of his behaviors, they could have used their authority over him to ensure that the problem were identified and treated. The security at the yard could have prevented the guns getting into the facility. Even as a society we share in the blame for the guns - we allow people who have no legitimate right (think about the first precept) to have guns to own them. Without guns this tragedy could not have happened on the scale that it did.

When we talk about people with mental disorders we should be mindful !!!! There are many different mental disorders with many different effects and the choices that the suffers make also vary. We need to be mindful in regards to the truthfulness of what we are sayings but we also need to be mindful of the suffering that we can cause other people (sufferers, families and friends). When we make statements that marginalizes or denigrate people in such circumstances we reduce the probability of them seeking treatment making the tragedies more likely to occur. The facts are that most people with mental disorders do not engage in acts of violence, most of those who do commit violent acts direct the violence at them selves. Often the disorders themselves make violence difficult - take for example severe clinical depression - most people who commit suicide do so as they start to recover because in the depths of depression they can not get their act together to even harm them selves.

When we talk about the side effects of medications we discourage those suffering from mental disorders from seeking diagnosis and treatment. Our actions increase the suffering of other people - how does this sit with the Dhamma.

Mental disorders are a set of disabilities - failure to be able to have metta and compassion for ALL is a disability in the context of the 8 Fold Path. As ones who aspire to follow the path we should be mindful of our own action. Please!!!

metta
paul

chownah
Posts: 7367
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by chownah » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:41 am

Jhana4 wrote:Nobody likes it when people with the same affiliations/demographics as theirs publicly does things they and everyone else would object to.
This is a perfect example of clinging to self view.
chownah

Pacific
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:48 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Shooter at DC shipyard was Buddhist

Post by Pacific » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:50 am

Sorry it was THIS article referencing

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/sho ... story.html

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests