Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terrorist attack?

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Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:39 pm

Raksha wrote:
Martin Po wrote:If some one reject and goes against Buddha's teaching, so he is not a Buddha disciple.
Those who go fight and kill others, are not disciples, but the shame of Buddha's name.
It is not for you to say who is or is not a Buddhist. Shaolin monks not Buddhist? Mongolia not Buddhist? Gurkhas not Buddhist? I'm sick of Westerners in their 'cosy Californian studios' passing judgement on matters about which they know absolutely nothing.
The same goes for Blackbird's comments about Wirathu, describing him as 'fascist' and a 'nazi'. Have you been to Rakhine state Blackbird, or met Wirathu, have you even read anything written by him? I have yet to read a single Western media report that correctly portrays Rohingya as armed separatists funded by Saudi Arabia. Wirathu did not describe himself as 'Bin Laden' nor have monks led mobs against Muslims, it is simply Arakanese attacking Bangladeshi land-grabbers.
If there is 4 Noble Truth
If there is Noble Eightfold Path
If there is respect of Virtue (Patimokkha or 5-8-10 precepts)

There is Buddhism.

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marc108
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by marc108 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:45 pm

Sekha wrote: As far as the teaching of the Buddha is concerned, absolutely. There is no question about it.
I don't believe you find this line of thinking reflected in the Suttas. The Buddha allowed monks to strike back to defend themselves. You don't find the Buddha advising pacifism or taking anti-war stances during discussions with kings either.



Surely we can't allow extremist groups to just do as they please? Killing, believing they are doing good and will be rewarded for doing so, and wiping out entire cultures in the process. Is it better to kill a small group of people and prevent the deaths of hundreds of thousands or to just let things work themselves out. If we take the 'let things work themselves out' approach we have to be realistic and willing to accept that the evil group will in fact eliminate all other groups, come to power, and rule permanently. It's a very tough subject. The reality of the world we live in is that any society that adopts a purely pacifistic approach to worldly interactions will surely be wiped from existence. This world is samsara. It always will be.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:51 pm

PS: i'am from some region of the world where was some terrorist attacs. In my own town, on the public place, where my mother used to work, there was one explosion; in the neighbor town, town of some members of my family, there was explosion of some entire 10-floors buildings.
Never in my mind there was a mental formation based on hate or killing, and never i would like to go and kill islamic terrorist, i even read the Coran, and have many of musim friends. I have just change country with my family.

I know what i'am speaking about.
Last edited by Martin Po on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Sekha
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Sekha » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:53 pm

marc108 wrote: I don't believe you find this line of thinking reflected in the Suttas. The Buddha allowed monks to strike back to defend themselves. You don't find the Buddha advising pacifism or taking anti-war stances during discussions with kings either.
Is this a joke?
"There is the case, student, where a woman or man is a killer of living beings, brutal, bloody-handed, given to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, hell. If, on the break-up of the body, after death — instead of reappearing in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, hell — he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is short-lived wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a short life: to be a killer of living beings, brutal, bloody-handed, given to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings.

"But then there is the case where a woman or man, having abandoned the killing of living beings, abstains from killing living beings, and dwells with the rod laid down, the knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, & sympathetic for the welfare of all living beings. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination, in the heavenly world. If, on the break-up of the body, after death — instead of reappearing in a good destination, in the heavenly world — he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is long-lived wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a long life: to have abandoned the killing of living beings, to abstain from killing living beings, to dwell with one's rod laid down, one's knife laid down, scrupulous, merciful, & sympathetic for the welfare of all living beings.

"There is the case where a woman or man is one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is sickly wherever reborn. This is the way leading to sickliness: to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.

"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not one who harms beings with his/her fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is healthy wherever reborn. This is the way leading to health: not to be one who harms beings with one's fists, with clods, with sticks, or with knives.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
marc108 wrote: If we take the 'let things work themselves out' approach we have to be realistic and willing to accept that the evil group will in fact eliminate all other groups, come to power, and rule permanently. It's a very tough subject.
still better than becoming the evil group oneself without even realizing it.

marc108 wrote: The reality of the world we live in is that any society that adopts a purely pacifistic approach to worldly interactions will surely be wiped from existence.
And what about the Asokan empire? Do you mean that war is justified by the evilness of people on the other side? Is it not the exact same logic they are using and that make you label them as "evil"?
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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marc108
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by marc108 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:14 pm

Sekha wrote: Is this a joke?
no, and the quoted Sutta passage doesn't imply social pacifism. I'm not talking about non-violence as taken up by the practicing Buddhist as a personal practice, but a social concept and practice.


still better than becoming the evil group oneself without even realizing it.
what you're saying relies on presupposition that defending oneself causes one to become an evil group... which isn't true. really... think deeply about the issue i presented then give a response. how does one handle a group bent on wiping out an entire culture? would pacifism have worked against the nazis? should we in fact, take a pacifistic approach towards extremist mulsim groups and allow them to take over the entire world, destroy all other religions, enact worldwide sharia law?

Do you mean that war is justified by the evilness of people on the other side? Is it not the exact same logic they are using and that make you label them as "evil"?
Yes, exactly. You cant put a modern extremist group into the same pile as a society that wants to defend itself from needless murdering and eventual annihilation. These are not the same thing.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:23 pm

Marc, are you ready to kill ?
Imagine, you take a gun, and you blow his face off, becasue of his wrong view. Are you ready to do that?

lojong1
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by lojong1 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:24 pm

It's time to move ahead, leave the leaves and books behind, and start carving dhamma into stone wherever we can.

Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:25 pm

Vidio's name is : "He killed me!"

It's a war jurnalist, who make a film on war, and at the end of this vidio he die, he was killed by a sniper, and he scream "He killed me! He killed me!"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUr28o8h1pg
Last edited by Martin Po on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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marc108
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by marc108 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:26 pm

Martin Po wrote:Marc, are you ready to kill ?
Imagine, you take a gun, and you blow his face off, becasue of his wrong view. Are you ready to do that?
Myself, personally... no. But nor am I will to disband the military in hopes my Metta will stop extremist groups from murdering.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:30 pm

marc108 wrote:
Martin Po wrote:Marc, are you ready to kill ?
Imagine, you take a gun, and you blow his face off, becasue of his wrong view. Are you ready to do that?
Myself, personally... no. But nor am I will to disband the military in hopes my Metta will stop extremist groups from murdering.
I want you to watch the vidio that i'am posted above.

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marc108
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by marc108 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Martin Po wrote: I want you to watch the vidio that i'am posted above.
i did. i dont see how it relates?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

perkele
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by perkele » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:17 pm

Maybe it is like this: Those who most identify themselves as Buddhists while living in comfort and overseeing the world through the divine eye of the internet with their immaculate emancipated wisdom will be the first to advocate killing when things get tough politically in some other part of the world, some other culture, some other society that is seen and identified with as "Buddhist", "mine, all mine".

:broke:

Oh, it is shameful.


And all that without even having so much humility as to consider that the whole image and judgement about the - certainly not simple - situations, conflicts and states of affair somewhere else in the world is for the most part nothing else than one's own fantasy, projection, extrapolation of "facts" heard of, seen and read here or there.

Too much information. We think through having all this mass of information we are in a position to judge any situation everywhere, and what should be done there, brought to justice, corrected, true values as we know them established or defended or whatever... This here is just one of these manifestations of arrogance. We are the defenders of all the true values that we see everywhere in the world with our compassionate divine eyes.
Even seeing how others die to feed our proud judgemental sensationalism, (Thanks for the video, Martin) we don't see the connection.

But of course, we have to judge.
Especially when we have such a radiant Buddha image as an avatar, we are here to save the world after all, spread our metta and wisdom.
Are we?
Or can we be humble in the face of others' suffering?

Maybe...
:thinking:
Let's try.

@marc:
should we in fact, take a pacifistic approach towards extremist mulsim groups and allow them to take over the entire world, destroy all other religions, enact worldwide sharia law?
You might be reborn as a chicken, with your sensationalist apocalyptic visions.

Martin Po
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Martin Po » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:24 pm

marc108 wrote:
Martin Po wrote: I want you to watch the vidio that i'am posted above.
i did. i dont see how it relates?
There is no actualy relation, just to show that war is not somethink to looking for.

Buddha no need someone's unwholesome protection. If some one kill an another being under name of Buddha, for the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha, it's a way to hell.

Me, as Buddha's disciple, i no need someone's unwholesome, ignorant, foolish, ignoble protection.

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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by Kusala » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:29 pm

Will wrote:
Martin Po wrote:
Will wrote: Most Buddhists are not like the few Arhans who follow the Saw Sutta. They will defend themselves and even take preemptive actions against the Muslims.
If some one reject and goes against Buddha's teaching, so he is not a Buddha disciple.
Those who go fight and kill others, are not disciples, but the shame of Buddha's name.

IMO.
With karuna.
Noble notion Martin - does it apply to Islamic terrorists who blow up innocents? Are they not Muslims? They certainly think they are good Muslims - they quote chapter and verse from the Koran & the Hadith in support of their Jihad.

Is the Dhamma a purely pacifist religion?
In my limited and flawed understanding, the Dhamma is a fine balance between extremes. Buddhism is called the "Middle Path" for a reason.
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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marc108
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Re: Nine blasts in Bodhgaya this morning: terror attack?

Post by marc108 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:41 pm

perkele wrote:You might be reborn as a chicken, with your sensationalist apocalyptic visions.

I don't find what I said to be sensationalist at all. It is, in fact, in line with the socio-political philosophies & goals of most extremist religious groups (mulsim or otherwise). Wipe out other religions, kill off anyone unwilling to convert, and establish a theocratic ruling system. I would invite you to explore both views and practices of groups like the indian mujahadeen (suspected in the Bodh Gaya bombings) and other similar groups and if I am wrong, please correct me.

how would you, perkele, suppose these types of situations be handled at the societal level?
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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