Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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m0rl0ck
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by m0rl0ck » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:19 pm

alan wrote:Hi friends.
The government is not trying to take over your home.
I have watch government control of citizens lives increase since the 70's. The final straw was the patriot act, which pretty much strips US citizens of any right of privacy or guarantee of of due process. Do you live in the US?

Whatever Snowdens faults may be, he has by circumstance been cast as a defender of the US Consitution.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:31 pm

alan wrote:Hi friends.
The government is not trying to take over your home. The brown people aren't all criminals. And the gays sometimes are decent people, too. Real Buddhists have more important things to think about, and certainly don't obsess on petty hatreds.
Right?
"Real Buddhists" like everyone else have to deal with their peculiarities.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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manas
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by manas » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:13 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:
alan wrote:Hi friends.
The government is not trying to take over your home.
I have watch government control of citizens lives increase since the 70's. The final straw was the patriot act, which pretty much strips US citizens of any right of privacy or guarantee of of due process. Do you live in the US?

Whatever Snowdens faults may be, he has by circumstance been cast as a defender of the US Consitution.
:goodpost:

Well said Morlock, that was the main point I was trying to make in a recent topic (now locked). Snowden is not perfect, but he has done one good important action - revealed the extent of Government surveillance of even innocent civilians. Someone had to do it, and it happened to be Snowden. A question: so do the People just roll over and accept that they should no longer expect any privacy whatsoever in their communications, or do they demand that their elected representatives - which is what Government is supposed to be - wind back this abhorrent and unconstitutional infringement of basic human rights?

It will be interesting to see if there is enough of a groundswell of resolve to see the right of ordinary persons who are not suspected of any crime, to not have phone conversations, emails and other communications listened to, recorded etc by the Govt. Unless there is a valid suspicion of a crime, and a properly obtained warrant, there is no justification for it!

kind regards
manas
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Dan74
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:27 pm

Regarding that other thread, I have talked to people and thought more about it, and I am not sure this is such a good thing (Prism, I mean).

I mean for the government to have access to all this communication and have no judicial oversight is fraught with danger. Would Watergate have come out? Would Irangate have come out, if the government had access to all the communications, could easily find out journalists' informers? And so much more. You might want to have a look at this report from The Young Turks:



So we should be careful not to be too quick to label people conspiracy nuts. On the other hand, when this stuff goes on and the mainstream media is controlled by special interests, many people go overboard and fall into conspiratorial mindsets...
_/|\_

EmptyShadow
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by EmptyShadow » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:51 am

I guess a "real buddhist" would let go when other people don't share his opinion about the US government and woudn't call them 'conspiracy nuts' only because he doesn't agree with them :smile:

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BlackBird
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by BlackBird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:35 am

Dan74 wrote:Regarding that other thread, I have talked to people and thought more about it, and I am not sure this is such a good thing (Prism, I mean).

I mean for the government to have access to all this communication and have no judicial oversight is fraught with danger. Would Watergate have come out? Would Irangate have come out, if the government had access to all the communications, could easily find out journalists' informers? And so much more. You might want to have a look at this report from The Young Turks:



So we should be careful not to be too quick to label people conspiracy nuts. On the other hand, when this stuff goes on and the mainstream media is controlled by special interests, many people go overboard and fall into conspiratorial mindsets...
Good post Dan.

I think what is clear about the world we live in is that Corporations have the ability to (and often excersise the right to) operate with virtually no morals when the situation is in their interests to do so. The incessant political lobbying and money driven system in US politics has led it all to an absolute grid lock traffic jam of sorts where nothing meaningful is able to be accomplished unless it's in the corporate favour.

On the other side of the coin you've got a rampant government made up of various cancerous cells such as the Department of Homeland security, the NSA, CIA, DEA all that which the military industrial complex feeds off, that just wants to grow bigger and have more control and grow bigger and have more control, and part of that control is found in keeping very big secrets from us, secrets about what they do behind closed doors, about their actions to gain more control and power - Secrets that if they got out - Would cause scandal and would be public relations nightmares, that might cost some powerful men their livelyhoods. There's a lot that these people just do not want you to know - And over the years there has been various whistleblowers - Watergate, Iran-contra, Abu Ghraib, Julian Assange and Bradley Manning and now Edward Snowden.

There's nothing conspiritorial about it. It's the cold hard truth. Ain't no missiles blowing up pentagons, or bombs blowing up twin towers, or magic bullets from gunmen atop grassy knolls, or lizards controlling the world.

There's just a gigantic cancerous overbearing government that is willing to do whatever it likes to achieve it's ends, and a bunch of monpolistic power hungry corporations who feed it, and in return expect favours.

It's not big brother, it's like a whole clan of big evil sisters, and we're cinderalla, at home washing the dishes and being slaves while our Sisters are out having a grand ol' time at the ball, and you best believe they've got secrets they want to keep from us, it's in their best interests to do so.

I listen to a very good podcast by a historian named Dan Carlin called 'Common Sense', I think it's very enlightening as to the current situation in US politics and geopolitics in general. Very interesting indeed.
http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/cs
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:46 am

BlackBird wrote: . . .
Heavy, man. What are you going to do about it?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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BlackBird
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by BlackBird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:53 am

tiltbillings wrote:
BlackBird wrote: . . .
Heavy, man. What are you going to do about it?
I'm gonna sit on my butt and close my eyes and watch my breath.

How's that sit with you?
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:01 am

BlackBird wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
BlackBird wrote: . . .
Heavy, man. What are you going to do about it?
I'm gonna sit on my butt and close my eyes and watch my breath.

How's that sit with you?
What you do is your choice. It matters not to me.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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BlackBird
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by BlackBird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:18 am

tiltbillings wrote: What you do is your choice. It matters not to me.
If it doesn't matter to you, why did you ask this:
tiltbillings wrote:What are you going to do about it?
?

metta ;)
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:23 am

BlackBird wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: What you do is your choice. It matters not to me.
If it doesn't matter to you, why did you ask this:
tiltbillings wrote:What are you going to do about it?
?

metta ;)
Jack
A mild case of curiosity as to what one does when faced with such an overwhelming circumstance so totally beyond one's control.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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BlackBird
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by BlackBird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:41 am

tiltbillings wrote:
BlackBird wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: What you do is your choice. It matters not to me.
If it doesn't matter to you, why did you ask this:
tiltbillings wrote:What are you going to do about it?
?

metta ;)
Jack
A mild case of curiosity as to what one does when faced with such an overwhelming circumstance so totally beyond one's control.
Fair enough then. I don't think there's much we can do as individuals. I would happily try and help subvert the system in a nonviolent way if the situation arose. But I do not think it possible to enact lasting meaningful change. I go back to Dan Carlin and another of his podcasts called Hardcore History, in several episodes he gives a very detailed description of the attempts of reformers during the Roman republic, every attempt was subverted in some way by the senators, be it by assassination or subterfuge, those who stuck their neck out for the republic soon found themselves without a head.

I'm hoping to pursue a career in journalism for a bit, but I have no illusions that beyond attempting to break a few meaningful stories, there's not much chance at meaningful change - The old saying of leading a horse to water comes to mind. It simply offers a chance to pay off my extensive debt and do something I enjoy and would find mentally stimulating. I'd rather retire early and young to a monastery where I can live out my days as a monk practicing Dhamma.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:50 am

Ah, the dystopian future. Will it be Logan's Run or the Hunger Games or Walt Disney?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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BlackBird
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by BlackBird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:56 am

Enlightened by 30 when your hand prism turns black? I doubt it.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Conspiracy nuts, gay marriage, and immigration.

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:00 am

BlackBird wrote:Enlightened by 30 when your hand prism turns black? I doubt it.
If it serves the great industrial-military-governmental complex and Wal-Mart, it could happen.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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