The Ghost in the Shell.

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Individual
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The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Individual » Sun May 31, 2009 4:09 am

Has anyone seen this animated film or the manga the film was based on? It was just on TV tonight -- I'd heard of it before -- and it was very good.

The Ghost in the Shell is an animated Japanese film and manga based in a futuristic world with highly advanced neurotechnology. It was such a strong influence on The Matrix that some have called it plagiarism.

In the film, a person's consciousness (the information and neural patterns that define them) is referred to as their "ghost" and the body they inhabit is referred to as their "shell", hence the title of the film. The story centers around a cyborg who tries to come to terms with their personal identity, with what it means to be a conscious, sentient being, despite being merely made up of various components, 99% of which are artificial. This cyborg works for a secret intelligence organization in Japan, who is trying to track a terrorist called the Puppetmaster. He is nicknamed the Puppetmaster because of his method of hacking people's minds (their "ghosts") in order to control them, even using one "puppet" to hack another.

Do you believe this kind of technology is possible and, if it is one day possible, would you have reservations about uploading your mind to a new body?
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra

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Ben
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Ben » Sun May 31, 2009 4:33 am

Individual wrote:Do you believe this kind of technology is possible

No
Individual wrote: would you have reservations about uploading your mind to a new body?

Well, one could argue we do this already when we die and arise again in samsara.
Rather than taking advantage of such 'fantastic' technology to extend my life (if it existed), I would be more inclined to spend my time on my spiritual aspirations.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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clw_uk
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 31, 2009 10:51 pm

Do you believe this kind of technology is possible

Hard to say, depends on how the mind/body problem turns out and the issue of moving V copying. I wouldnt say its a dead no, something that seems impossible has a habit of becoming possible in science



and, if it is one day possible, would you have reservations about uploading your mind to a new body?


I would want it done if it were possible
The dogmatists have claimed to have found the truth, others say that it cannot be apprehended; the Sceptics continue the search.
Sextus Empiricus

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Lucas Oliveira » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:35 am

Ghost in the Shell - Official Trailer 1 - (2017)

phpBB [video]


:spy:
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plwk
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby plwk » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:56 am

would you have reservations about uploading your mind to a new body?
Yes, becoming, again and again, is such a nuisance...
It's been a while Individual...I hope you have been well and happy..wherever you are RIP :candle:

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Lucas Oliveira » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:47 am

phpBB [video]
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Kim OHara
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:37 am

These sorts of ideas crop up fairly often in SF. If anyone wants to explore further, try ...
Gibson Neuromancer and others
Egan Zendegi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zendegi (Very good indeed - serious exploration of the issues)
McCaffrey The Ship Who Sang (very lightweight)
There are lots more recommendations on this page https://www.quora.com/Which-science-fiction-works-best-explore-the-concept-of-mind-uploading which I found when I was looking for something to remind me about others I've read/seen.

If you prefer facts, Wikipedia has a page on the technology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading

:reading:

:coffee: :coffee:

Kim

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Lucas Oliveira » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:49 am

Who influenced all of them?

The Buddha?!

:spy:

Image
Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see. Paul Klee
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Kim OHara
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:50 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:Who influenced all of them?

The Buddha?!

:spy:

Image
Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see. Paul Klee

The serious answer to your jokey question is probably Descartes, who really made the mind-body dualism central to the way westerners understand themselves. After all, if the 'mind' is truly part of the 'body', it's pretty hard to imagine separating it and putting it in another (artificial) body.
One of the deepest and most lasting legacies of Descartes’ philosophy is his thesis that mind and body are really distinct—a thesis now called "mind-body dualism." He reaches this conclusion by arguing that the nature of the mind (that is, a thinking, non-extended thing) is completely different from that of the body (that is, an extended, non-thinking thing), and therefore it is possible for one to exist without the other.

That's from http://www.iep.utm.edu/descmind/, which quickly gets very technical :thinking: but there's plenty more to turn up with an internet search.

:coffee:
Kim

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Lucas Oliveira » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:13 pm

Descartes is quoted in "Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence"

In this video in time: 7:55
phpBB [video]


Who influenced who? Some researchers claim that the doctrine of the Buddha greatly influenced Western philosophy.

Just look for the sources of this statement on the net.


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Coëmgenu
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Coëmgenu » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:34 am

I love Ghost in the Shell, my fear, having seen American-made trailers for the upcoming American film, is that the upcoming adaption's plot is only vaguely related to the original's.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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BlackBird
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby BlackBird » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:12 pm

I'm a big fan of serious anime. Some of the most affecting stories and themes I've watched has been in Anime. Particularly existential themes like in Cowboy Bebop, Mushishi, Samurai Champloo, FMA brotherhood etc.

I've always wanted to get into this series, BUT the sequence of stories is quite complicated. Can someone tell me what order I should watch the shows and movies?

Cheers
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Coëmgenu
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Re: The Ghost in the Shell.

Postby Coëmgenu » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:45 pm

BlackBird wrote:I'm a big fan of serious anime. Some of the most affecting stories and themes I've watched has been in Anime. Particularly existential themes like in Cowboy Bebop, Mushishi, Samurai Champloo, FMA brotherhood etc.

I've always wanted to get into this series, BUT the sequence of stories is quite complicated. Can someone tell me what order I should watch the shows and movies?

Cheers
Jack
Each reboot of Ghost in the Shell is more or less self-contained. You can watch them in any order you like. IMO the 1995 Mamoru Oshii adaption is by far the best, because Mamoru Oshi dramatically changes the somewhat comic and teenagery tone of the original manga to make an introspective, sophisticated, and existential film that, IMO, transcends it's genre.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶


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