David N. Snyder wrote:acinteyyo wrote:David N. Snyder wrote:At one point, wouldn't it be better to make a choice?
Hi David,
why?
To be on a set-path, not just picking and choosing the palatable parts and leaving behind the "harder" stuff like precepts, commandments, etc. To master a path, to make progress, rather than getting lost in a thicket of views. Just some ideas for that side, I personally don't have a problem with not choosing a specific religion, especially when first embarking on a search.
There are some good points in what Acinteyyo had quoted before and to struggle with the tratitions has its learn and giving up effects, but one thing that is maybe more important is, that one is not able to walk the path alone as long as he has not entered the stream, I am not sure if the first fruit of path attainemt is enought already.
Such a put away the rits and precepts thing comes by it self, if that is a forced thing, it is mostly leaded by the deluded mind. How ever, if one come to the place where this things are no more relevant one leaves religion automatical and will 100% relay only on the Sangha (in its real meaning) and will no more care about religion.
Religion and all around it to maintain it is for sure not only a thicket but a jungle of views. We can start to cut of the jungle with our personal religion, our relicts and the ways we defend and try to maintain it and that is what is meant by leaving the home. Give up all promisies and responsibilities and focus as you sad simply only on the path.
Whether one is caught in a frame of religion or not, I wish everybody the bravery and courageousness to put virtue and the path at least higher as any view.
May you be well as all others and my you make your self an island with Dhamma as soon as it is yours. Don't make your self an island with your views, it simply hurts and you need to fight on and on that the flood will not drown the artifactal self raft.
Thanks for sharing the stanzas from Ghosa Sutta, Acinteyyo.
In regard of the "hard stuff" here:
Making Tables & Chairs
It's good to make the mind pure and at peace, but it's hard. You have to start with the externals — your bodily actions and words — and work your way in. The path that leads to purity, to being a contemplative, is a path that can wash away greed, anger, and delusion. You have to exercise restraint and self-control, which is why it's hard — but so what if it's hard?
It's like taking wood to make a table or make a chair. It's hard, but so what if it's hard? The wood has to go through that process. Before it can become a table or a chair, we have to go through the coarse and heavy stages.
It's the same with us. We have to become skillful where we aren't yet skillful, admirable where we aren't yet admirable, competent where we aren't yet competent.
And as Devarupa below states, here some stanzas from the honoroale
Stutta Honor:
"Even some devas, Nagita, cannot obtain at will — without difficulty, without trouble — as I do, the pleasure of renunciation, the pleasure of seclusion, the pleasure of peace, the pleasure of self-awakening. When you all live together, assemble together, and live committed to dwelling with a group, the thought occurs: 'Surely these venerable ones cannot obtain at will — without difficulty, without trouble — as I do, the pleasure of renunciation, the pleasure of seclusion, the pleasure of peace, the pleasure of self-awakening, which is why they live together, assemble together, and live committed to dwelling with a group.'
[1] "There is the case, Nagita, where I see monks laughing out loud, sporting around, tickling one another with their fingers. The thought occurs to me, 'Surely these venerable ones cannot obtain at will — without difficulty, without trouble — as I do, the pleasure of renunciation, the pleasure of seclusion, the pleasure of peace, the pleasure of self-awakening, which is why they are laughing out loud, sporting around, tickling one another with their fingers.'
[2] "Then there is the case where I see monks — having eaten as much as they want, filling their bellies — live committed to the pleasure of lying down, the pleasure of sensory contacts, the pleasure of torpor. The thought occurs to me, 'Surely these venerable ones cannot obtain at will — without difficulty, without trouble — as I do, the pleasure of renunciation, the pleasure of seclusion, the pleasure of peace, the pleasure of self-awakening, which is why they — having eaten as much as they want, filling their bellies — live committed to the pleasure of lying down, the pleasure of sensory contacts, the pleasure of torpor.
[3] "Then there is the case where I see a monk sitting in concentration in a village dwelling. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon a monastery attendant will disturb this venerable one in some way, or a novice will, and rouse him from his concentration.' And so I am not pleased with that monk's village-dwelling.
[4] "But then there is the case where I see a monk sitting, nodding, in the wilderness. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon this venerable one will dispel his drowsiness & fatigue and attend to the wilderness-perception, [1] [his mind] unified.' And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.
[5] "Then there is the case where I see a wilderness monk sitting unconcentrated in the wilderness. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon this venerable one will center his unconcentrated mind, or protect his concentrated mind.' And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.
[6] "Then there is the case where I see a wilderness monk sitting in concentration in the wilderness. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon this venerable one will release his unreleased mind, or protect his released mind.' And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.
[7] "Then there is the case where I see a village-dwelling monk who receives robes, alms food, shelter, & medicinal requisites for curing the sick. Receiving, as he likes, those gains, offerings, & fame, he neglects seclusion, he neglects isolated forest & wilderness dwellings. He makes his living by visiting villages, towns, & cities. And so I am not pleased with that monk's village-dwelling.[2]
[8] "Then there is the case where I see a wilderness monk who receives robes, alms food, shelter, & medicinal requisites for curing the sick. Fending off those gains, offerings, & fame, he doesn't neglect seclusion, doesn't neglect isolated forest & wilderness dwellings. And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.[3]
"But when I am traveling along a road and see no one in front or behind me, at that time I have my ease, even when urinating & defecating."