Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

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Ben
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Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Ben » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:00 am

Hi all,

Some of you may be interested in the following interview.
Your comments are welcome.
Tim Prowse was a United Methodist pastor for almost 20 years, serving churches in Missouri and Indiana. Tim earned a B.A. from East Texas Baptist University, a Master of Divinity (M.Div) from Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, and a Doctor of Ministry (D.Min) from Chicago Theological Seminary. Acknowledging his unbelief, Tim left his faith and career in 2011. He currently lives in Indiana. He was kind enough to discuss his experience of leaving the ministry with me by email.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-god" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Kim OHara
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:56 am

I will give it a B+
It's good as far as it goes but there's nothing particularly exciting, startling or challenging about it.

:namaste:
Kim

Nyana
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Nyana » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:01 am

Harris is narrow minded and annoying.

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Ben
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Ben » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:08 am

Ñāṇa wrote:Harris is narrow minded and annoying.
Narrow minded and annoying.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:21 am

Ñāṇa wrote:Harris is narrow minded and annoying.
In your opinion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Nyana
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Nyana » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:55 am

Harris draws a lame caricature of religion and then attacks it ad nauseum. Chris Hedges' opening statement in his debate with Harris:
  • Sam Harris has conflated faith with tribalism. His book is an attack not on faith but on a system of being and believing that is dangerous and incompatible with the open society. He attacks superstition, a belief in magic and the childish notion of an anthropomorphic God that is characteristic of the tribe, of the closed society. He calls this religion. I do not.
Throughout the debate Harris wasn't willing (or able?) to step out of his narrow little worldview and acknowledge other ways of understanding. Boring stuff really.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:00 am

Ñāṇa wrote: Boring stuff really.
Then don't read it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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contemplans
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by contemplans » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:47 pm

The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism, by Edward Feser tackles Harris and others. His arguments for atheism, or against God, are weaker than his weak Christianity.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:13 pm

contemplans wrote:The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism, by Edward Feser tackles Harris and others. His arguments for atheism, or against God, are weaker than his weak Christianity.
Yes, we have seen how well Freser defends the god notion. Shall we have a look at that again?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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contemplans
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by contemplans » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:52 pm

Yes, we have seen how well Freser defends the god notion. Shall we have a look at that again?
Somehow I've doubt you've read the book.

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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Moggalana » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:55 pm

Hi Ben,

interesting interview. Here is a related talk by Dan Dennett where he talks a bit more about how clergy often lose their faith and how they face that dilemma:

Let it come. Let it be. Let it go.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:07 pm

contemplans wrote:
Yes, we have seen how well Freser defends the god notion. Shall we have a look at that again?
Somehow I've doubt you've read the book.
I have read your arguments, read the links to his writings. There is not much there.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Noah
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Noah » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:45 am

interesting for sure, thanks for posting this. It may be "beneficial" for anyone with their own hangups with Christian doctrines. It is hard at first to get your bearings if you were very devoted before the doubting or if you have no strong personal convictions. I makes me sad to think that some NEED an organized religion or they have no moral compass. Good luck to all fellow seekers and.....never stop searching :)

Noah
Evil is caused by and is the cause of future suffering, abandon at all costs! Cultivate virtuous qualities and live the happy life! Just as all wise human endeavors, from Physics to Philosophy, approach the Dhamma; be fearless in your reverence for it- The time for the True Law is yet to dawn in the west!! :D

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Ferox
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Re: Life without God: Sam Harris interviews Tim Prowse

Post by Ferox » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:47 pm

The Buddha says that he teaches only Dukkha and the cessation of Dukkha, that is, suffering and the end of suffering.

yet another imponderable not worth speculating about :)
-just one more being treading the ancient path of Dhamma-

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