Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:13 pm

bodom wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:05 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:54 pm
JeffR wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:16 am

Find people you can talk to who will support you in staying sober. The Buddha has said that good companions are the whole of the holy life.
I have a lot of friends, everyone says I must stop. A lot of people are worrying for me. I don't want to die. But life seems to be unbearable without alcohol, due to my severe depression.
I suffered from depression and drug and alcohol abuse for well over 25 years of my life. The alcohol is a depressant and therefore making you more depressed. If you are drinking and using Benzo's you absolutely need to enter a detox facility. Alcohol and Benzo's are the only two drugs you can actually die from the withdrawal. You need a medical intervention. I have been where you are. You can recover from this malady I promise you but first you need to get into detox and then a rehab. Please I beg of you to get help. I was in the suicide unit 3 times before i got sober because i didn't know how to live without alcohol and drugs. It will KILL you if you don't get help. I've had many friends die from this. Please get help you CANNOT do it on your own.

:namaste:
Thank you for you honesty. This is very frightening what you write. I had 8 years of alcohol and 5 years of benzo dependence history. But what about my job? 2 months of detox is not well appreciated here.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:18 pm

bodom wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:09 pm

Well if you don't get help I can guarantee you will lose your job from the addiction anyway because it is a chronic and progressive condition. Everytime you think it can't get any worse it will. There is always another bottom to hit. And you hit bottom When you stop digging. Alcohol and drugs will rob you of everything you love. Please get help!

:anjali:
Very well said. 10 beers a day leads to losing my job anyway. But I can save my life if I go the detox / hospital. And yes, it gets worse every week. I'm weaker and weaker, I feel the end is near. Thank you for your wise advices.

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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:19 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:13 pm
bodom wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:05 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:54 pm


I have a lot of friends, everyone says I must stop. A lot of people are worrying for me. I don't want to die. But life seems to be unbearable without alcohol, due to my severe depression.
I suffered from depression and drug and alcohol abuse for well over 25 years of my life. The alcohol is a depressant and therefore making you more depressed. If you are drinking and using Benzo's you absolutely need to enter a detox facility. Alcohol and Benzo's are the only two drugs you can actually die from the withdrawal. You need a medical intervention. I have been where you are. You can recover from this malady I promise you but first you need to get into detox and then a rehab. Please I beg of you to get help. I was in the suicide unit 3 times before i got sober because i didn't know how to live without alcohol and drugs. It will KILL you if you don't get help. I've had many friends die from this. Please get help you CANNOT do it on your own.

:namaste:
Thank you for you honesty. This is very frightening what you write. I had 8 years of alcohol and 5 years of benzo dependence history. But what about my job? 2 months of detox is not well appreciated here.
Detox should only take 7 days. If you choose to go to rehab it is usually 30 days.

As far as what I've described of my own problems was only the tip of the iceberg. I suffered many many years. Spent time in and out of prison. Lost jobs, a wife, my house, was homeless, crashed cars, and stole from anyone I could including my family to support my addiction. Not to mention suffering from liver failure and hepatitis. All before the age of 35. If you don't get help that can and will happen to you. You don't have to go down that road.

Though I've never killed anyone, once I heard Angulimalas story, I knew that there was hope for me through the Dhamma, and in my life today there is! Life is completely different today for me and it is so much better than I ever thought possible. Please trust in the Dhamma and good friends and first and foremost stop using and get medical help! The Dhamma will take care of the rest.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm

bodom wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Detox should only take 7 days. If you choose to go to rehab it is usually 30 days.

As far as what I've described of my own problems was only the tip of the iceberg. I suffered many many years. Spent time in and out of prison. Lost jobs, a wife, my house, was homeless, crashed cars, and stole from anyone I could including my family to support my addiction. Not to mention suffering from liver failure and hepatitis. All before the age of 35. If you don't get help that can and will happen to you. You don't have to go down that road.

Though I've never killed anyone, once I heard Angulimalas story, I knew that there was hope for me through the Dhamma, and in my life today there is! Life is completely different today for me and it is so much better than I ever thought possible. Please trust in the Dhamma and good friends and first and foremost stop using and get medical help! The Dhamma will take care of the rest.

:namaste:
Oh my god. I was never in prison, but I made some minor criminal acts, not to get money for my beer, but to get free from my anger. I never hurt anyone, but I broke my window and my door, and cut my arms with a knife. I was in restricted class for a week. I spent a total of 4 months in hospital. I have a police record, but it was just an injury, no criminality, but I was heavily drunken. I have already liver and kidney, and pancreas damage at 36 years of age.

What makes sense in working, and drinking half of my salary, and go down the road? It's waste of time and money, and health. If I lose my job, at least I will have no money to drink, I have nothing to lose. I will think about this serious question.

The director of the mental hospital said he will never accept me again, because I'm just an alcoholic. The problem is difficult, but maybe I can go to detox for a week. Relapse is a great problem. I hate my job and my house (ghetto), so the root problem will not be solved, if I come out of the detox.

mal4mac
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by mal4mac » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:50 am

Why do you think all your problems are so connected?

Believing that will make it very difficult to develop the will power to defeat them. Baumeister's book, which I mentioned earlier, makes it clear that we have only a small amount of energy to give to will power, and can only solve one (or a few) problems at a time. If you say to yourself, I'm living in a ghetto, lets look for a house, it's a bad job, look for another, I smoke, try not to smoke, I drink, try not to drink... etc etc... in one day then you will totally drain your will power and end up not finding a better house, smoking, drinking, etc.

So, today, why not just try to give up drinking. Set the determination in your mind *I will not drink*, and don't drink. So you don't like the job, why does that mean you automatically must take a drink? Keep on not liking your job (for now) but just don't drink! You're in your ghetto, ok be in your ghetto, but just don't drink.

It's a vicious circle: you don't like your job, so you drink to forget it, but in the morning you still have to face the bad job, and this time with a hangover and health destroyed by alcohol! At least cure one of these problems, the big one, STOP DRINKING.
- Mal

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:36 pm

mal4mac wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:50 am
Why do you think all your problems are so connected?

Believing that will make it very difficult to develop the will power to defeat them. Baumeister's book, which I mentioned earlier, makes it clear that we have only a small amount of energy to give to will power, and can only solve one (or a few) problems at a time. If you say to yourself, I'm living in a ghetto, lets look for a house, it's a bad job, look for another, I smoke, try not to smoke, I drink, try not to drink... etc etc... in one day then you will totally drain your will power and end up not finding a better house, smoking, drinking, etc.

So, today, why not just try to give up drinking. Set the determination in your mind *I will not drink*, and don't drink. So you don't like the job, why does that mean you automatically must take a drink? Keep on not liking your job (for now) but just don't drink! You're in your ghetto, ok be in your ghetto, but just don't drink.

It's a vicious circle: you don't like your job, so you drink to forget it, but in the morning you still have to face the bad job, and this time with a hangover and health destroyed by alcohol! At least cure one of these problems, the big one, STOP DRINKING.
Thank you for your wise advices. I understand, one by one. The biggest issue is drinking. Last night I was at a party, drank 10 beers, and when I got home, I fell down the floor, fell asleep. My mother said I should go the bed, because floor is cold. It was very-very hard to get to bed, I collapsed several times. Finally with the help of my mother, I managed to climb up to the bed. This is the last thing I remember.

There are some good news! My best girlfriend of mine popped up out of nowhere, 8 years later. We lived together for 5 years. I said I still love her, and she said she love me too, and miss me. Maybe she can help me, the date will be 2 weeks later. I want to be sober when I meet her. She doesn't know what happened to me in the last 8 years, and I became an alcoholic (partly because losing her) because when we was together, in the old times, I never drank.

I want to meet her totally sober without a hangover.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:00 pm

I'm sorry if this isn't well received Oncereturner, but looking to girlfriends or old relationships to help you get sober is not going to help you. In fact, it will hurt you. This person is an added stressor in your life and is going to make things far far worse, regardless of how good of a person she is.

Please take advantage of us here on this forum who have been down this road and save yourself some needless suffering-- go to a AA meeting and swallow your pride. The people in those rooms know how to help you solve your problem and have done it.

You have a situation now where you can choose further alcoholic torture, or the possibility of making a real change. Any hope from this rekindling the old relationship will fade, and probably destroy any relationship you have with her because you are still actively in addiction. Seen it innumerable times.

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cappuccino
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by cappuccino » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:07 am

Mahaanaama, a lay-follower who has for a long time taken refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha — how could he go to states of woe? [And this can be truly said of Sarakaani the Sakyan.] How could he go to states of woe?

Why, Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment, how much more so then Sarakaani the Sakyan!


Sarakaani Sutta: Sarakaani (Who Took to Drink)
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
Buddha has said, "As even a little excrement is of evil smell, I do not praise even the shortest spell of existence, be it no longer than a snap of the fingers."

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:04 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:00 pm
I'm sorry if this isn't well received Oncereturner, but looking to girlfriends or old relationships to help you get sober is not going to help you. In fact, it will hurt you. This person is an added stressor in your life and is going to make things far far worse, regardless of how good of a person she is.

Please take advantage of us here on this forum who have been down this road and save yourself some needless suffering-- go to a AA meeting and swallow your pride. The people in those rooms know how to help you solve your problem and have done it.

You have a situation now where you can choose further alcoholic torture, or the possibility of making a real change. Any hope from this rekindling the old relationship will fade, and probably destroy any relationship you have with her because you are still actively in addiction. Seen it innumerable times.
I have a terrible hangover today, as always. But I was in the wilderness midnight and thinking about dhamma, the girl and my addiction. You are very right, she is another stressor, and the stress is the root cause of my alcoholism. By the way, all of my friends says that starting an old relationship again is strange and I must be very careful. She is a strange person, and she stressed me to death long ago, and she surely will do it again. She is doing it already. So another dead end.

I have another stressor, a mobile game. I like this zombie survival game, I got killed my terrible monsters, it is a huge stressor. I must drink to play. I quit this game now.

Half of my country is alcoholic. Yesterday I've seen cca. 15 heavily drunken man/teen/woman on the streets and on the bus. They nearly collapsed, a sad thing to see. I became one of them, the unimaginable happened to me. I like sport and healthy lifestyle, and I hate alcohol. Despite all these, it somehow happened to me.

Social media network is a great fun, but just another terrible stressor. I will stop it now.

I didn't have a shower for a month, I'm stinking like hell. Today I must take a shower and stay sober. I dont want a hangover at Monday. My job is the greatest stressor, the main cause of my alcololism, I hate this job, but I have to earn money, it is a vicious circle.
Last edited by oncereturner on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

denise
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by denise » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:08 pm

hello....very sorry that this has hold of you.....the only way to stop is with the help of people that are currently working on the same as you.....you will find that a lot of AA's teachings are similar to Buddhism......you can go and see for yourself...please try..the longer you wait the worse it will be..... :heart:

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 pm

denise wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:08 pm
hello....very sorry that this has hold of you.....the only way to stop is with the help of people that are currently working on the same as you.....you will find that a lot of AA's teachings are similar to Buddhism......you can go and see for yourself...please try..the longer you wait the worse it will be..... :heart:
Once I was at local AA meeting, a man told the horror story of his addiction to drugs and alcohol. I was shocked, but the is clean now. Another man told he was a heavy drinker, but he is clean for cc. 3000 day, which means 10 years, and he is still counting the days of his sobriety.

I joined the AA forum group too. There is no shortage of shocking stories (losing jobs and so on). I shared with them half of my story, they were shocked too, but several people of them is still drinking, and can't even think anymore.

So AA looks like this. I think it is one way, doctor recommends it too. Dhamma seems to be the only way.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:33 pm

Finally, I had a shower at the Metropolitan Waterworks Co. And my clothes will be clean at the "Bubbles" self-service lavatory. I've seen 2 heavily drunken man in just one minute, they could hardly walk, Monday will be bitter for them. I guess there is a million of them now. I try my best not to be the same.

The Buddha said that the mind should be straightforward like a bow. My mind is my greatest enemy, it is wondering away from dhamma every day. The teachings of Buddha is complex, difficult and hard to comprehend. Every day I learn something new from the scriptures. Nowadays and in the old times of the dhamma, everything remained the same. We face the same difficulties. People are the same as well. It is hard (impossible) to tell right from wrong, without the old texts. I'm progressing very slowly, sometimes one step forwards, two steps backwards.

Temptations, craving and distractions are everywhere, outside, and inside in my mind. I must read and think.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:23 pm

Hello.

I drink less, and I feel somewhat better, but life is getting harder. It is getting really tough. My plans of sobriety is denied every day. I can't even remember my last sober day, without a hangover. I plan something, but every time life has some another plan for tomorrow. I must be cursed.

I'm not that i-cant-even-walk type of alcoholic, I drink every day and still seem to be likely sober.

Garrib
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Garrib » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:11 pm

Hey brother, I'm glad to hear you are drinking less. That sounds like a move in the right direction. Have you reached out to any support groups (AA, etc...)?? I think it might be really good for you to talk to someone, in person, about these issues, in addition to staying in touch with DW members through the web. Preferably someone who has overcome addiction themselves?

Take care of yourself.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:43 pm

Garrib wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:11 pm
Hey brother, I'm glad to hear you are drinking less. That sounds like a move in the right direction. Have you reached out to any support groups (AA, etc...)?? I think it might be really good for you to talk to someone, in person, about these issues, in addition to staying in touch with DW members through the web. Preferably someone who has overcome addiction themselves?

Take care of yourself.
I was sober for two days, thinking of the girl and dhamma had some effect, and I felt much better, but I relapsed. I will lose that girl. I came home from work and I stood in front of a liquor store. I said no-no-no, but I went in for the beer. Then I searched for another store for more beer.
This workday was easy, no stress, i only "worked" 3 minutes out of 8 hours. I don't understand this, it must be an illness, an addiction.

I was at AA long ago, and I have friends, who tell me to stop. Reading dhamma, and friends doesn't really help me. I could help myself, but I'm too weak, I don't stand a chance.

Maybe I should tell my alcoholism to the girl. Is she the only one, who can help me?

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Ren
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Ren » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:10 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:48 pm
Garrib wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:03 am
oncereturner wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:18 am
I have to stop this somehow.
Please PLEASE do! Think about us here at Dhammawheel - we would all LOVE to one day hear your recovery story, and on the flipside, I would be really disappointed to hear that something bad had happened to you. It doesn't matter that we are separated by cultural and geographic barriers. You matter and people care about you. Please get help and do what needs to be done - get clean and STAY clean. It is possible...

Take care.
Thank you for your support and your kind words. Yesterday I was at a rock concert, and drank very much, my friend hired me a taxi, because i couldn't walk. In the wilderness I also drink very much, sometimes fall asleep in the woods. It's a refugee from the civilization, but not from alcohol. It is everywhere, cheap and nobody cares about a drinking man on the street in my country.

I will try my best. Willpower, medicine, dhamma and everything seems to be useless now. I'm also addicted to (40 mg-s / day) nicotine and mobile gaming. I also take 6 mg-s of benzodiazepine a day.

It's a miracle I was working today, and my work was praised by my boss.

In short, I have several heavy addictions, each one are associated. Gaming, alcohol, benzo, nicotine and so on.

This is just a misery. I'm still thinking about to solution. Maybe forums, AA, doctor, spiritual communities.
Your solution may be to work on the anxiety fetter.

Karuna, Ren.

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Ren
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Ren » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:21 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:00 pm
I'm sorry if this isn't well received Oncereturner, but looking to girlfriends or old relationships to help you get sober is not going to help you. In fact, it will hurt you. This person is an added stressor in your life and is going to make things far far worse, regardless of how good of a person she is.

(...)
Good company & friends are extremely important for the path of awakening. Without knowing further context, these old relationships may or may not be good company & friends.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:39 pm

If you have been through recovery, then you know after seeing innumerable examples that exes coming back into your life when you are trying to get sober is like pouring gasoline onto a fire. If you haven't gone through recovery you may not realize that. That has prevented many people from getting sober or delayed it.

In AA sponsors routinely advise no romantic relationships until 1 year after you have been sober.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:00 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:39 pm
If you have been through recovery, then you know after seeing innumerable examples that exes coming back into your life when you are trying to get sober is like pouring gasoline onto a fire. If you haven't gone through recovery you may not realize that. That has prevented many people from getting sober or delayed it.

In AA sponsors routinely advise no romantic relationships until 1 year after you have been sober.
I'm sad to read this. She said she didn't have a relationship in the last 9 years. I haven't seen her since 2008. I guess it is just another lie. She is a notorious liar, I know her very well.

Now everything looks fine, we will meet this weekend. She said she changed for the right in this decade. It seems that she wants me for some reason. If she refuses to meet me, and lying again, I must close this relationship forever. This is not a good perspective, because I don't have a girl for 9 years. She was the only one.

I guess I should go to a pay-girl because I'm unable to find a relationship, but I desperately need a girl.

oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm

To be honest, I can't find a real cause of my addiction. I suffered from a lot of stress and frustration all of my life, but I never drank.

Then one day I decided to drink some wine, because I read it in a newspaper, that some red wine is healthy, and I felt better, so drank more and more. Of course, it is very unhealthy now. Drinking became my lifestyle.

I can blame everything but alcohol itself is to blame.

The situation changed and worsened over the years. I was sober for some months easily, but now I drink every day without a reason. I feel sadness and panic, if I don't get my beer, this feeling is horrible.

Games are a trigger of drinking. Adrenaline-fueled zombie shooters probably do harm in my case. I like to drink while playing.

When I come out of the office, which happens 1 hours later, and I already feel irresistable temptation to drink.

In addition, I substitute not being loved by a girl, with alcohol. I guess everyone needs to be loved.

I'm looking forward to read your wise advices!

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