Thumbs up button

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R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:00 pm

Imho stating what tradition one follows if any has no drawbacks and is a good measure to take.
For rating i think if done right it is an important tool for contemporary e-Sangha so i think it is almost our duty to look for optimimal solutions to facilitate encouraging of Right discussion, right view and proper debate. I think publicly showing a members status ratio of the Amount of thanks divided by Total posts for what it is could be safe otherwise maybe we can drop it if we cant think of a good solution together. Perhaps make a Theravada Contemporary Debate section and a Theravada contemporary discussion section with strict moderation according to Kathavatthu Suttas http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Zom
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Zom » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:40 pm

And online Buddhist forums are such good representatives of what is relevant in Buddhism, right?
I can judge taking into account our russian theravada forum. It just works there and everyone is quite happy with the system. The majority there knows what is wrong and what is right and so good posts immediately get promotion and attention and don't lost among (mostly) meaningless or non-dhammic topics and conversations. But again, I'm okay with the present system on dhammawheel as well. The positive side of it is that it triggers less one's conceit.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: What is the future of Dhamma Wheel

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:58 pm

santa100 wrote:For when it comes to the evaluation of a specific technical point on a specific Dhamma topic, a downvote from a davidbrainerd is not exactly the same as a downvote from Ven. Dhammanando or Pesala. And if on a particular day, there're 2 or 3 davidbrainerd's for every Dhammanando, then...you get the picture. And this might explains what happened to those 2 monks in your post:
On the Vivaldi forum, new users don't get any voting rights until they have accumulated some upvotes. If they are trolls, they will get more downvotes from the regular members, and never win the right to vote. Hopefully, the mods would ban them if their negative count reaches a certain point.

The voting system for an OBE is not a public vote and I have no clue how it actually works. If it was done by public votes like Sports Personality of the Year those with cronies who are politicians would not do so well, and those charity workers who really deserve it would do much better.
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by SarathW » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:37 pm

Majorities view may not be the best answer or the best solution. In Sutta Central they use like button to prop up popular posts,
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:48 pm

Democracy is far from being a perfect system and the thumbs-up system would have all the faults of democracy (the majority don't decide truth) with all the corruption. I can see trolls conspiring together with practices like "I'll give you thumbs-up for all your posts if you do the same for me." And/or trolls could set up all kinds of sock-puppet (extra) accounts for the sole purpose of giving more thumbs-up to their own posts and thumbs-down for those that disagree with them. Yes, there are IP markings that mods can see, but there are now anonymizers and tor browsers to easily get around the IP identifications.

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Re: What is the future of Dhamma Wheel

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Greetings,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Hopefully, the mods would ban them if their negative count reaches a certain point
That sounds like a recipe for a "mob mentality". I can just imagine the covert campaigns set up to gang up and unfairly target certain members with down votes until they're booted.

To be clear, members here will not be suspended or banned for being unpopular or expressing unpopular or heterodox views.... only for Terms of Service violations.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:59 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Democracy is far from being a perfect system and the thumbs-up system would have all the faults of democracy (the majority don't decide truth) with all the corruption. I can see trolls conspiring together with practices like "I'll give you thumbs-up for all your posts if you do the same for me." And/or trolls could set up all kinds of sock-puppet (extra) accounts for the sole purpose of giving more thumbs-up to their own posts and thumbs-down for those that disagree with them. Yes, there are IP markings that mods can see, but there are now anonymizers and tor browsers to easily get around the IP identifications.
One can also have a system with 1 positive vote per person, that is seemingly harder to exploit. However you know more about security and trolling than me so i leave it up to you.

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Mkoll » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:04 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Democracy is far from being a perfect system and the thumbs-up system would have all the faults of democracy (the majority don't decide truth) with all the corruption. I can see trolls conspiring together with practices like "I'll give you thumbs-up for all your posts if you do the same for me." And/or trolls could set up all kinds of sock-puppet (extra) accounts for the sole purpose of giving more thumbs-up to their own posts and thumbs-down for those that disagree with them. Yes, there are IP markings that mods can see, but there are now anonymizers and tor browsers to easily get around the IP identifications.
Couldn't this be fixed by requiring a certain number of posts before one can vote on anything? Say 15 or 25? Some forums have a minimum number of posts a new member has to make before they get certain privileges. DW may as well, but I don't remember.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Aloka
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Aloka » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:15 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:What would be the point? It would just become a competition for who can get the most up-votes. I still don't like it. The answer is still no unless I can hear much more compelling points (and if the other mods agreed too), so far still no good reason that I can see for having it.
:goodpost:

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:16 pm

Mkoll wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:Democracy is far from being a perfect system and the thumbs-up system would have all the faults of democracy (the majority don't decide truth) with all the corruption. I can see trolls conspiring together with practices like "I'll give you thumbs-up for all your posts if you do the same for me." And/or trolls could set up all kinds of sock-puppet (extra) accounts for the sole purpose of giving more thumbs-up to their own posts and thumbs-down for those that disagree with them. Yes, there are IP markings that mods can see, but there are now anonymizers and tor browsers to easily get around the IP identifications.
Couldn't this be fixed by requiring a certain number of posts before one can vote on anything? Say 15 or 25? Some forums have a minimum number of posts a new member has to make before they get certain privileges. DW may as well, but I don't remember.
Also very easy to circumvent. Remember a certain persistent member here who kept coming back over and over under different aliases? Some of his extra accounts had well over 100 posts.

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:30 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:Democracy is far from being a perfect system and the thumbs-up system would have all the faults of democracy (the majority don't decide truth) with all the corruption. I can see trolls conspiring together with practices like "I'll give you thumbs-up for all your posts if you do the same for me." And/or trolls could set up all kinds of sock-puppet (extra) accounts for the sole purpose of giving more thumbs-up to their own posts and thumbs-down for those that disagree with them. Yes, there are IP markings that mods can see, but there are now anonymizers and tor browsers to easily get around the IP identifications.
Couldn't this be fixed by requiring a certain number of posts before one can vote on anything? Say 15 or 25? Some forums have a minimum number of posts a new member has to make before they get certain privileges. DW may as well, but I don't remember.
Also very easy to circumvent. Remember a certain persistent member here who kept coming back over and over under different aliases? Some of his extra accounts had well over 100 posts.
100 posts to cast a like and 1 like per account?

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:36 pm

R1111 wrote: 100 posts to cast a like and 1 like per account?
1 like per account? What for? That would make it totally meaningless. We have a lot of members, but not that many. And then you only get one like vote? It would be like gold and how would you use it? Could you revoke it and change it to someone else? Completely meaningless, in my opinion.

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:57 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
R1111 wrote:Completely meaningless, in my opinion.
I will try to come up with a better idea:) Sadhu for being critical in proper places!

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by samseva » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:40 am

I think that an upvote system would be good. Two important reasons:

1. Knowing that people appreciated your post or that it helped someone out—which is different from now, because with zero visible feedback, you doubt if anyone even read what you wrote, and because of that you lose interest in helping people out in the future.
  • I've experienced this with my blog, and I'm sure many people have also experienced this on forums or for other things. You write a long and well-written post or article, thinking it will help someone out. However, no one responds or gives feedback—it is as if no one read it. But normally this isn't the case. Usually, many people read your post/article, and it probably helped a few people out. But it seems people don't really give feedback (one reason is that it disrupts the converstion), so you think you wrote the post/article for nothing and that you wasted your time, and then you don't feel motivated at all to post or help people in the future.
2. Users will write for quality. It's a good and natural quality control to increase good participation and wholesome discussions, and to reduce unwholesome/mindless chatter.
  • People posting 100s of times per month or even per week isn't all that uncommon. And whether people think this is the case or not, a lot of users—especially newcomers—base credibility on post count. Having an upvote system would point out the people who post good posts (either by number of upvotes, or upvotes-to-post ratio like on Zom's forum) and it would also be a small reminder for people who post only to increase their post count or for those spending most of their time in heated or political threads. Because of this, good discusions and participation would increase and unwholesome chatter would go down.
I think Dhamma Wheel is first and foremost a place to help people out and have worthwhile discussions on Dhamma, rather than unwholesome chatter. Having an upvote feature would help direct Dhamma Wheel a little more in that direction.

#UpvoteTheUpvoteFeature

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Mkoll » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:11 am

:goodpost:

Instead of making this post I could have just upvoted you! :mrgreen:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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