Like / Dislike, Thumbs up / Thumbs down etc.

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:38 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:48 am
What is your evidence for this not being the case as in why do you assume that the highest quality would not be determined by usefulness and winning the popular vote?
argumentum ad populum

See also the Bill Maher video.
If it is a competition to help people by providing the most useful answers, how is that a bad thing?
argumentum ad populum

If you still think the popular vote is what makes something good and should determine the outcome, well then here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30359

A poll was taken and 83% said no.

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:06 pm

Not much value in the video, I doubt anything could make me more addicted to checking in.

The vote just shows that majority of people do not want it, does not prove anything else. It does not prove that it is a bad idea.

I do not say that the popular vote should determine the outcome always or in general, that is not my position.

In hindsight tho i think both options have relative merits and maybe i am too biased when it comes to this issue. It is not that i want rep power but i do want to censor certain individuals.

Good enough as is i guess and possibly optimal.

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Like/dislike

Post by WorldTraveller » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:47 am

[Merged into this topic because of its similarities to the existing topic... no point rehashing the same positions yet again... Thanks, Retro.]


I'd like to suggest adding the facility to give a "Like/Dislike" or "Agree/disagree" or "+/-" to a post by the forum members. This way the need to type a post to express a simple like/dislike will be saved, and also the total count should appear under a user name which will give a general indication about the content members' post here.

Of course the worst scenario of this is when there are too many wrong views out there, even the Buddha or Noble disciples might get a higher dislike count. Just kidding :tongue:
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:04 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:47 am
[Merged into this topic because of its similarities to the existing topic... no point rehashing the same positions yet again... Thanks, Retro.]


I'd like to suggest adding the facility to give a "Like/Dislike" or "Agree/disagree" or "+/-" to a post by the forum members. This way the need to type a post to express a simple like/dislike will be saved, and also the total count should appear under a user name which will give a general indication about the content members' post here.

Of course the worst scenario of this is when there are too many wrong views out there, even the Buddha or Noble disciples might get a higher dislike count. Just kidding :tongue:
i don't think they want to separate good posters from the bad.
DNS wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:38 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:48 am
What is your evidence for this not being the case as in why do you assume that the highest quality would not be determined by usefulness and winning the popular vote?
argumentum ad populum

See also the Bill Maher video.
If it is a competition to help people by providing the most useful answers, how is that a bad thing?
argumentum ad populum

If you still think the popular vote is what makes something good and should determine the outcome, well then here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30359

A poll was taken and 83% said no.
Like to dislike ratio does not speak for the validity of particular points expressed rather it expresses the general population's affinity for the poster's contributions to the forum something that can't be falsified by argumentum ad populum.

I personally think it would be good because certain people would have a rightfully shitty rating and people would be warned and less inclined to take them seriously. Also it would destroy their delusion of being equal to the good posters when they see their 5/95 like to dislike ratio.

For me it is of little importance but i realize that the bottom tier of the learned contingent can be persuasive and appear impressive to new people whilst being prone to follow ideas which are rejected by the top tier of learned contingent. Like Devadatta was able to impress and persuade the Prince to kill his father.

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:50 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:04 am

For me it is of little importance but i realize that the bottom tier of the learned contingent can be persuasive and appear impressive to new people whilst being prone to follow ideas which are rejected by the top tier of learned contingent. Like Devadatta was able to impress and persuade the Prince to kill his father.
Interesting typology. How does one decide which "contingent" members are placed in? I would have thought that only someone in the top tier of the learned contingent would be able to differentiate between ideas that should and should not be rejected. Is that where you place yourself?

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:42 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:50 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:04 am

For me it is of little importance but i realize that the bottom tier of the learned contingent can be persuasive and appear impressive to new people whilst being prone to follow ideas which are rejected by the top tier of learned contingent. Like Devadatta was able to impress and persuade the Prince to kill his father.
Interesting typology. How does one decide which "contingent" members are placed in? I would have thought that only someone in the top tier of the learned contingent would be able to differentiate between ideas that should and should not be rejected. Is that where you place yourself?
One makes an educated guess and decides according to ability. Even people in the top half are not immune from following wrong ideas but they are less likely to follow the more obviously flawed ideas. Only the very top percentile will be in general alignment on major issues and points of controversy but i don't have data to tell you where the cutoff is.
Take Dhamma as an example;

beginners with low natural ability
beginners with high natural ability
As these people spend hundred hours studying Tipitaka and meditating they become more advanced
As these people spend thousand hours studying Tipitaka and meditating they become more advanced
As these people spend ten thousand hours studying Tipitaka and meditating they become more advanced
As people attain the Path they become Sotapannas
As people attain the Second Path they become Sakidagamis
As people attain the Third Path they become Anagamis
As people attain the Fourth Path they become Arahants

Obviously the Ariya will be in general alignment and find themselves at the top whereas the puthujjana who has spent 1000 hours will have wrong view but can appear very impressive to other puthujjana.
Is that where you place yourself?
I don't think i have to answer this question. It is also irrelevant because It is not a matter of where one places oneself, it is a matter of where one actually is. A puthujjana might think Ariyans have wrong view and place himself higher than them but as it actually is he is not even their equal.

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:33 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:42 am

I don't think i have to answer this question and i think you pretty much know the answer. It is also irrelevant because It is not a matter of where one places oneself, it is a matter of where one actually is. A puthujjana might think Ariyans have wrong view and place himself higher than them but as it actually is he is not even their equal.
You certainly don't have to answer it, but I only asked because I don't know. I would have thought it relevant in that it seems to be the case that the lower one places oneself in a typology of knowledge, the less valid that typology becomes overall. I can infer that you might think yourself to be very advanced because you are sufficiently confident to formulate the typology, but that inference might be based on false premises.

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:33 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:42 am

I don't think i have to answer this question and i think you pretty much know the answer. It is also irrelevant because It is not a matter of where one places oneself, it is a matter of where one actually is. A puthujjana might think Ariyans have wrong view and place himself higher than them but as it actually is he is not even their equal.
You certainly don't have to answer it, but I only asked because I don't know. I would have thought it relevant in that it seems to be the case that the lower one places oneself in a typology of knowledge, the less valid that typology becomes overall. I can infer that you might think yourself to be very advanced because you are sufficiently confident to formulate the typology, but that inference might be based on false premises.
i think the existence of the various degrees of knowledge is well established and it would be foolish to argue against it.

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Re: Like / Dislike, Thumbs up / Thumbs down etc.

Post by budo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 am

I don't know if this thread is still about the main topic (like/disikes voting) but from my experience in several forums that have adopted this voting feature, it only degrades the quality of the forum as people say what they think will get them more votes rather than what they believe in. I believe people should use words to explain and defend their belief, and giving people the option to vote on every post leads to laziness and also used to attack people who they don't like regardless of that person speaking the truth.

I try to see the message rather than the person, and so if I disagree with a person on one topic, it doesn't mean I disagree with them on other topics. However those who cannot do that will see the person and not the message, and will "downvote" them no matter what the say.

Therefore I do not think a voting system is a good idea.

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:41 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 am

i think the existence of the various degrees of knowledge is well established and it would be foolish to argue against it.
Indeed. I haven't seen anyone arguing against it, have you?

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Re: Like/dislike

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:41 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:36 am

i think the existence of the various degrees of knowledge is well established and it would be foolish to argue against it.
Indeed. I haven't seen anyone arguing against it, have you?
apparently not.

Anyway i don't feel strongly about this like/dislike thing either way but id vote for implementation of an upvote/post ratio. I don't want to spend my time downvoting people i don't like either:) I think the upvote/post ratio would solve some of the problems that this forum has but it is not necessarily the best way to solve those problems, still it is better than not addressing the issues imo.

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