Thumbs up button

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R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:54 am

It is not difficult to have a fruitful discussion between opposing views, to comment or give a teaching in a way moderated according to the Suttas. People have to beforehand agree upon definitions of key concepts and what is known as true and that which isnt, if the topic for discussion is one of the approved topics by the Buddha it is a good way to communicate and discuss/debate(can be said to be same thing in this context) the Dhamma. I would like to train in this way, the Supreme Teacher has said that in such discussion a person will be known as worth talking to or not. If people want to engage in a less formal or a more unwholesome discussion they should be free to do so but there should be a platform for people to make serious claims or engage in Right Discussion on a Theravada Dhamma forum, we have several Suttas with clear rules to enforce and guidelines to follow and it is all very well applicable to internet forum format.
IE if someone is promoting suspect view as right view or a troll, he may be quickly referred to the moderated format if he wanted to discuss it.

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samseva
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by samseva » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:20 pm

hahaha wrote:
Popularity wouldn't be an issue, but helping people out would be encouraged. Most importantly, it would be feedback to show people who take time out of their day and week to write posts to help people out. If you find out what you write helps people, it shows you are doing something worthwhile, and it motivates you the continue. On the contrary, not getting feedback (because people don't really give any or don't want to disrupt the conversation) results in not wanting to invest time in something which seems to not help anyone at all.
Ego rewards are a powerful and cheap motivation. But those who really are about helping others will do it without ego rewards.
It's not about "ego rewards." You barely read what I wrote. It's about getting feedback that what you are posting is helping people out, rather than that it seems like no one is reading your (well-written/well-thought out) posts.

A forum isn't face-to-face communication. There is no body language to base yourself on. When I find that someone got something out of what I wrote, I feel like the 15-30 minutes I took to write the post was worthwhile. Having no body language—or any form of feedback whatsoever for that matter—is demotivating to write more. At least, that is how I experience forums and other similar online interaction. This is the main reason why I closed my blog and participate less on forums (if no one is getting anything out of my posts—or even reading them—what is the point of taking the time to write them and post them in the first place).

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:47 pm

The moderator on the Vivaldi Forums deleted some posts to encourage a user with a lot of downvotes. This is by far the best way to reduce disruption - remove the offensive comments that caused it. Other forums often just lock threads, leaving all of the offensive comments, with no chance for anyone to refute the false allegations made. They then start new threads, and so it goes on.
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_anicca_
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by _anicca_ » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:44 am

I strongly believe that adding a '+' or 'thumbs up' button would be very beneficial.

I hope that the moderators are considering adding this feature.
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:32 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Other forums often just lock threads, leaving all of the offensive comments, with no chance for anyone to refute the false allegations made. They then start new threads, and so it goes on.
To my experience, this is the approach of the mods on our sister-forum, DharmaWheel, and I have similar critiques of that approach.
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Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Pseudobabble » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:21 pm

The problem with up and down votes is that it creates the potential for a runaway positive feedback loop - which can go very well, if people treat it properly, or very badly, if they don't.

I think just like with announcements of attainments, we should let each person make their own judgement based on the outward behaviour of the subject. 'Reputation' tells you nothing but what others thought, and what they thought has no necessary correlation with fact.
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sun May 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Bill Maher says it brilliantly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDqoTDM7tio

:twothumbsup: :oops:

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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 14, 2017 10:48 pm

Greetings,
Pseudobabble wrote:...we should let each person make their own judgement...
:thumbsup:

Well said. In these technologically-aided times of echo-chambers and groupthink, the skill of being able to independently make up your own mind on matters, and go against the grain where necessary, is vitally important to maintaining intellectual and spiritual autonomy.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:48 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:08 am
If the quality of the Dhamma was determined by popular vote, then this may have some practical use.
DNS wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:51 am
I agree with retro. Even if it were possible, I would not want it. It could easily turn into an ego event for who has the "most" thumbs up's.
What is your evidence for this not being the case as in why do you assume that the highest quality would not be determined by usefulness and winning the popular vote?

Imo the natural assumption is that the real Dhamma would be most helpful and therefore most popular.

One can look at the stackexchange for example, i think it is evident that posts/likes ratio favors the most helpful and educated posters.

As i see it this has been experimented with elsewhere and your hypothesis is empirically disproven and i am not only talking about SE
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:57 am
A simple upvote downvote system like on the Vivaldi forums works well. I receive notifications for upvotes, but not for downvotes. The vote count for each post indicates how popular the feature request is. Here, it would be a vote for the quality of the reply. If someone gets a lot of downvotes, others will soon realise that they are not worth paying attention to.

More complex system like on the old Serif forums count posts as well as reputation votes. As the post count passes certain thresholds you get a new label like Guru, Master, Expert, etc., while the reputation votes add up to green squares (or red squares if someone only makes negative posts).

Simpler is better IMO. Everyone should understand that it's just a rough guide to knowledge or behaviour, as any reputation system. I know two monks with an OBE. One thoroughly deserved it, the other did not.
Zom wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:52 pm
On our russian theravada forum we made "Only Upvotes" system, there is no "Downvote" button at all. Reputation (N of votes received) is shown just below the avatar near the N of posts. Works good. Usually good posters have 2:1 proportion (like ~2 votes per 1 message). Trolls and non-buddhists - vice versa, like 1 vote per 2 or even 3-4 messages. People who argue too much, but who are generally buddhists, have ~1:1 proportion.
Upvotes can be grinded by grinding posts but the post to likes ratio can not be grinded without cheating and such cheating would require a rediculous amount of effort.

I think all the evidence points to an upvote system encouraging posting helpful comments and discouraging a lot of the disruptive/negative type of posts.
DNS wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:24 pm
For some (not all) it might end up being a competition and another chance to feed the ego.
If it is a competition to help people by providing the most useful answers, how is that a bad thing?
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:06 am

:thumbsup:
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by DNS » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:38 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:48 am
What is your evidence for this not being the case as in why do you assume that the highest quality would not be determined by usefulness and winning the popular vote?
argumentum ad populum

See also the Bill Maher video.
If it is a competition to help people by providing the most useful answers, how is that a bad thing?
argumentum ad populum

If you still think the popular vote is what makes something good and should determine the outcome, well then here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30359

A poll was taken and 83% said no.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Thumbs up button

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:06 pm

Not much value in the video, I doubt anything could make me more addicted to checking in.

The vote just shows that majority of people do not want it, does not prove anything else. It does not prove that it is a bad idea.

I do not say that the popular vote should determine the outcome always or in general, that is not my position.

In hindsight tho i think both options have relative merits and maybe i am too biased when it comes to this issue. It is not that i want rep power but i do want to censor certain individuals.

Good enough as is i guess and possibly optimal.
How to Destroy any addiction - Ven. Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu
How to Meditate: Vipassana Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors & Perceptions
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
"It is hard for such a generation to see this truth, namely, specific conditionality, dependent origination. And it is hard to see this truth, namely, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna."

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