A debating hall open to non-buddhist

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Circle5
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A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Circle5 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:27 am

Has anyone here ever been to a big forum ? Cause I did. Can you imagine ? A provincial guy from DW like me, being on a big forum, among all those shiny lights and tall topics ? When was the last time you ever saw a 50 page topic ? I've been on forums so big that you literally get lost in the categories. Forums so big that after months of being there, you find out there is a button in the menu showing you all the categories, because the normal menu you've been using so far only shows you a part of them. A place where people can tell weather you're a new member or an illegal, duplicate user, because of how fast you find your way around the forum ? Forums so big that nobody is even gona notice that you exist, let alone know who you are, despite being there for a year ? Been there, done that. But this is not what I want to talk about, this was only for bragging to you countryside folks.

But something relevant to our forum did happen to me today. I was on another buddhist forum, the PC one, and I had a materialist once again try to run away from me after 2 posts. I have been complaining for years about materialist being the fastest to run away from a debate, at least on buddhist forums. I really wanted to properly debate a materialist, I wanted a higher level, more in-depth debate. This is something good to do in order to understand their arguments, it's important for keeping your debating level high. Otherwise you might one day find yourself using weak arguments with the wrong person and embarrassing yourself.

So I googled and found a great place. It's an atheist forum that has a debating hall and a very open attitude, with people that have some debating ethics. I really did not expect to ever find atheist with debating ethics, especially since some years ago I've once visited an atheist forum and it was the lowest level of forum possible in terms of ethics. Plus it was basically more a political forum than an atheist forum. But this place I've found now is great. I even imported this cool avatar that I now have from an atheist version of myself that I found on that forum :D It also has a great announcement at the enterance:

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/view
The Debate Room
Atheism is a boundless subject and while some atheists may be very lax about their beliefs, some others may aim to achieve certain objectives. Just as devout believers have their own ideas and agendas, unswerving non-believers have their own. The Debate Room at Atheist Republic is a forum that urges people from both ends of the spectrum and even those in between to have healthy interactions, exchange opinions and participate in debates about any topic.

The number of topics that one can debate over in this forum is bounteous and the good thing is that Atheist Republic heartily welcomes all who want to participate, irrespective of whether they are secular individuals, non-believers or even those who do not see eye-to-eye with atheists.

We know that all individuals are entitled to their own point of view but Atheist Republic also believes that there is no harm in having one’s point of view challenged. We are of the opinion that unless people involve themselves in educative, logical and meaningful debates, they will be unable to evolve intellectually, understand others with tolerance and appreciate what lies on the other side.

If you have ideas that genuinely intrigue you or could possibly intrigue others, it is a great idea to initiate and participate in a debate at Atheist Republic’s Debate Forum. Either you contribute to an existing thread or you can even start a thread of your own. Just remember to be respectful to all users since every individual is entitled to his or her own beliefs. Besides, you only stand to gain when you can engage with another in a comprehensible conversation. As most wise people are believed to have said, war was never the means for peace.
If anyone want's to see me smashing atheist left and right with my big logical club, my topic is here: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/d ... believe-it

I think such a section would be good if it would get non-buddhist traffic. Or maybe some on the forum that are not convinced by buddhism would have more freedom to speak there. It would also be beneficial for buddhist, since one of the 5 things buddha listed as reasons not to die yet is "having disciples skilled in refuting with arguments the thesis of other wanderers". I don't know if such a place would be as active and successful as that atheist debating hall, but it could be a good idea in attracting non-buddhist and converting them to our evil dogmatism and supertitions :stirthepot: .

Dinsdale
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:46 am

Circle5 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:27 am
If anyone want's to see me smashing atheist left and right with my big logical club, my topic is here: http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/d ... believe-it
I don't think you are winning them over, judging by this reply: :tongue:

"Actually, you are deep into mystical woo woo land, babbling about computers, butterflies, car sensors, and Buddhist philosophy. You like to drag a lot of unnecessary baggage into a conversation, How about trying to stay on topic and provide proof instead of word salad."
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Pseudobabble
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 am

As much as I love to debate, I find meditation practice is more enjoyable these days. Big forums usually have a much worse signal:noise ratio, and wading through trash is boring.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

Dinsdale
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:54 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 am
Big forums usually have a much worse signal:noise ratio, and wading through trash is boring.
Yes, they make my brain hurt. :rolleye:

Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Circle5
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Circle5 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:28 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:46 am
I don't think you are winning them over, judging by this reply: :tongue:
Lol :D Everybody makes mistakes in debates. Though overall I found them to be pretty weak. I expected a little better from a 20 vs 1 debate. But atheist have always been the weakest debating partners, weaker than postmodernist, christians, etc. because they actually do give a damn about science and logic. This makes them dead from the start because of those 2 problems I keep bringing up: 1) materialism has bee refuted - you need to believe in the Many words theory to even be allowed in a debate. And if you're believing that stuff, you're dead in any kind of debate. 2) it doesn't have a theory underneath it. There is not even an attempted explanation at how such a thing as consciousness could originate from matter. It's an idea based on intuition.

All their life they claimed having science and logic on their side. That's why they're so easy to smash by using the 2 points above. They can't just say "I could not care less about logic and reasoning" like postmodernist or christians do, and make it a headache to debate with them.

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DNS
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by DNS » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:33 pm

You could try this one on them and see how they respond. (I haven't read the whole thread in case you already mentioned it.):

If everything is materialism only and that's all there is, then why have scientists not been able to duplicate life? In all their expertise, skill, and knowledge, they have not been able to reproduce the tiniest gnat. Cloning does not count, as that uses the host's DNA. Robotic animals don't count, as they have no consciousness.

There could be something more to mere material of a being, otherwise material should be able to be replicated and make a new life, without using anyone's DNA, seed, egg or other biological material.

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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:40 pm

DNS wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:33 pm
You could try this one on them and see how they respond. (I haven't read the whole thread in case you already mentioned it.):

If everything is materialism only and that's all there is, then why have scientists not been able to duplicate life? In all their expertise, skill, and knowledge, they have not been able to reproduce the tiniest gnat. Cloning does not count, as that uses the host's DNA. Robotic animals don't count, as they have no consciousness.

There could be something more to mere material of a being, otherwise material should be able to be replicated and make a new life, without using anyone's DNA, seed, egg or other biological material.
With due respect to you David I think scientist will create a life one day without cloning.
One day maybe, I will be reborn in a science lab.
It is another way Samsara continues.
This is another kind of birth.
Did Buddha say this?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DNS
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by DNS » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:44 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:40 pm
With due respect to you David I think scientist will create a life one day without cloning.
One day maybe, I will be reborn in a science lab.
It is another way Samsara continues.
Maybe, we'll see.
This is another kind of birth.
Did Buddha say this?
I don't think so.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: A debating hall open to non-buddhist

Post by Pseudobabble » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:23 am

Circle5 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:28 pm
There is not even an attempted explanation at how such a thing as consciousness could originate from matter. It's an idea based on intuition.
I suggest you have a look at Douglas Hofstadter's book I Am A Strange Loop. It is a theory of how consciousness as a causally determinitive symbolic system could arise from a purely mechanistic physical substrate (the brain). He is not a dogmatist, and the theory is broadly compatible with Buddhist thinking.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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