Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

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Trekmentor
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Trekmentor » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:17 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:40 pm
More scary: I asked the venerable ...
Who is that venerable? If you don't mind, could you please share the details.
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:40 pm
He said, it's very easy to debunk a fake Ariya when you know what to look for but it will be very difficult to prove a genuine Ariya as an Ariya...
I think he would have meant proving to oneself.
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:40 pm
Letting a person astray, who repeatedly declare his wrong views (some are fundamentally very serious) and mock those who disagree is indeed naïve.
That is the problem. Otherwise, making errors is not a problem as long as the person corrects himself when shown. It is also understandable that people fail to understand finer topics.
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:40 pm
I'd suggest at least a warning color on the username, so at least raise awareness in the newcomers or those who are less knowledgeable in Dhamma.
A description clearly indicating the problem with the user needs to be there.
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:40 pm
Also, the time & effort of the members repeatedly wasted correcting and pointing to the wrong views for the sake of others.
If the repetition does not end, expelling is the correct option.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

Trekmentor
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Trekmentor » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:26 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:53 pm
Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:21 pm

When two sides hold opposite views, both sides cannot be correct at the same time. So if you are not sure about who is correct, it is best that you listen to both sides and investigate. It is best to leave the problem to be tackled by those who can.
Exactly. That's why the Waharaka thread does not need to be closed. If wrong views are being presented, then it is best for all concerned that they are subjected to open debate and rebuttal, rather than suppression.
No, you are wrong. Such suppression is not needed when faults are accepted as faults. What we have here is continued refusal of faults and the exercise of deceitful practices. When that happens, debating is pointless.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

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DNS
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by DNS » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:04 pm

I just noticed your signature line: http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/

That reminds me when several years back USC fans and alumni got together and bought the domain name: uscrejects.com and then had it redirect to the main UCLA website. So then some UCLA fans and alumni bought uclarejects.com and had it redirect to the USC site.

USC and UCLA are big rivals in the Los Angeles area for academics and sports, competing very close, usually in the top 20 of all U.S. schools for prestige and also in sports.

But now those domains are no longer in use; don't know if there were legal issues or not.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:53 pm

Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:26 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:53 pm
Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:21 pm

When two sides hold opposite views, both sides cannot be correct at the same time. So if you are not sure about who is correct, it is best that you listen to both sides and investigate. It is best to leave the problem to be tackled by those who can.
Exactly. That's why the Waharaka thread does not need to be closed. If wrong views are being presented, then it is best for all concerned that they are subjected to open debate and rebuttal, rather than suppression.
No, you are wrong. Such suppression is not needed when faults are accepted as faults. What we have here is continued refusal of faults and the exercise of deceitful practices. When that happens, debating is pointless.
Then you are cordially invited to refrain from debate. The choice is yours. You can either continue to debate, as is your right, which will allow you to expose what you consider to be deceitful practices and faults; or you can refrain from debating and allow those you consider to be in error to continue.

SarathW
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by SarathW » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:49 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:53 pm
Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:26 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:53 pm


Exactly. That's why the Waharaka thread does not need to be closed. If wrong views are being presented, then it is best for all concerned that they are subjected to open debate and rebuttal, rather than suppression.
No, you are wrong. Such suppression is not needed when faults are accepted as faults. What we have here is continued refusal of faults and the exercise of deceitful practices. When that happens, debating is pointless.
Then you are cordially invited to refrain from debate. The choice is yours. You can either continue to debate, as is your right, which will allow you to expose what you consider to be deceitful practices and faults; or you can refrain from debating and allow those you consider to be in error to continue.
Agree.
The great feature of Dhamma Wheel is the freedom of expression of opinion within guidelines.
If any person does not like Wharaka thread you can refrain from reading it or block it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Trekmentor
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Trekmentor » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:30 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:53 pm
Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:26 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:53 pm


Exactly. That's why the Waharaka thread does not need to be closed. If wrong views are being presented, then it is best for all concerned that they are subjected to open debate and rebuttal, rather than suppression.
No, you are wrong. Such suppression is not needed when faults are accepted as faults. What we have here is continued refusal of faults and the exercise of deceitful practices. When that happens, debating is pointless.
Then you are cordially invited to refrain from debate. The choice is yours. You can either continue to debate, as is your right, which will allow you to expose what you consider to be deceitful practices and faults; or you can refrain from debating and allow those you consider to be in error to continue.
If you think carefully, you might sometimes realize that neither of those suggestions would be beneficial to anybody in this case. Both suggestions are bad and poor.

SarathW wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:49 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:53 pm
Then you are cordially invited to refrain from debate. The choice is yours. You can either continue to debate, as is your right, which will allow you to expose what you consider to be deceitful practices and faults; or you can refrain from debating and allow those you consider to be in error to continue.
Agree.
The great feature of Dhamma Wheel is the freedom of expression of opinion within guidelines.
If any person does not like Wharaka thread you can refrain from reading it or block it.
When the other bhikkhus took disciplinary action against the Waharaka faction, Waharaka follows started to make such expressions too. They started to claim that they were prevented from exercising the freedom of expression guaranteed by the constitution of the country as a fundamental right. Having failed to demonstrate the correctness of what they were preaching, that's another tactic they tried using to mislead the public. They want to continue lying and the lying be protected by the constitution of the country. What a group of foolish thinkers!
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

SarathW
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by SarathW » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:35 am

When the other bhikkhus took disciplinary action against the Waharaka faction
This is quite legitimate as he still can carry his preaching as an independent person.
This is very similar to the expel of Ajhan Braham from his former sect.
Even in Dhamma Wheel if you go against the code of conduct you will be expelled.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Trekmentor
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Trekmentor » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:50 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:35 am
When the other bhikkhus took disciplinary action against the Waharaka faction
This is quite legitimate as he still can carry his preaching as an independent person.
No, it it not legitimate as per the law in Sri Lanka. More importantly, it is not in line with Lord Buddha's preachings. If such preaching is done in the name of Lord Buddha's Dhamma, it should be prevented. It is important for the continuation of Buddha sasana. What you say leads to the destruction of Buddha sasana.

For example, if someone starts spreading wrong views here in DW, claims such to be the right views, does so in the name of Theravāda Buddhism and seek independence, it should be prevented. That will uphold Theravāda Buddhism. Otherwise, such actions would lead to the deterioration of DW, DW would be a place where Theravāda Buddhism is destroyed.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

Trekmentor
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by Trekmentor » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:09 am

DNS wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:04 pm
I just noticed your signature line: http://impuredhamma.ext.trekmentor.com/
That's just one from several such things that I have done to contain the problems.

Not sure if you will understand due to the language used, but here is another:



Not limited to the Waharaka faction, I have been making the world a better place for a number of other parties too!
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

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mikenz66
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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:21 am

Hi Trekmentor,
Trekmentor wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:30 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:53 pm
... The choice is yours. You can either continue to debate, as is your right, which will allow you to expose what you consider to be deceitful practices and faults; or you can refrain from debating and allow those you consider to be in error to continue.
If you think carefully, you might sometimes realize that neither of those suggestions would be beneficial to anybody in this case. Both suggestions are bad and poor.
Many of us here disagree with some of the views expressed by some members of this Forum. However, this Forum is a discussion forum, with the aim of allowing discussion of a wide range of views on Dhamma, as David (DNS) has indicated.

Members here have a wide range of views on Dhamma. Some take the Ancient Commentaries to be authoritative. Others think that the Ancient Commentaries are misleading. Some are followers of particular modern teachers such as Venerables Mahasi, Maha Bua, Chah, Thanissaro, Buddhadasa, Nanavira, Nanananda, and so on. Some think that some (or all) of those teachers are misguided.

Though moderators may well have their own personal opinions about the above issues, this Forum is not designed to impose those opinions, but to give members an opportunity to discuss them in a civil manner. It is our hope such discussion will assists members in their understanding of Dhamma.

I hope that you will continue to contribute to the discussion.

Best Wishes
:heart:
Mike

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Re: Consider closing the Waharaka Thread

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:25 am

Greetings,

Well said, Mike.

And on that note, I think this Suggestion Box topic can be closed.
TOS 4 wrote:At Dhamma Wheel, we respect your intellectual and spiritual autonomy. As such, the staff here will not enforce reverence to anyone or anything, nor censor speech gratuitously. In keeping with this respect for your autonomy, we expect you to be personally responsible for your own emotions and responses.
:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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