Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
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In relation to "News, Current Events & Politics", I believe such discussion...

Should continue to be allowed at Dhamma Wheel, as is, because the Dhamma can influence how we see the world, and vice versa.
8
23%
Should go back to being in the Lounge, because having a dedicated section seems to give it too much prominence.
8
23%
Is fine in theory, but has become too difficult to manage in 2018, given people's attachment to views and widespread political polarization.
3
9%
Is fine in theory, but staff need to clamp down harder on serial offenders who cannot abide by the rules of that section.
1
3%
Is fine in theory, but staff unfairly oppress me and don't let me express my views.
1
3%
Should be prohibited at Dhamma Wheel altogether, because the topics and potential disputes tend to detract from the true purpose of the forum.
12
34%
Should be prohibited at Dhamma Wheel, altogether because worldly matters and religious matters should be kept separate.
1
3%
Is... (something else altogether, please explain below)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

Dinsdale
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Dinsdale » Sun May 27, 2018 10:12 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:41 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:23 pm
My favourite metaphor for the job when I did it over on the other Wheel, was actually gardening: encouraging flowers to flourish and removing the occasional weed. Every gardener knows that weeds take over if left unchecked.
I like this idea - gardening is the appropriate metaphor.
Weeds are just flowers in the wrong place. ;)
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:12 am
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:41 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:23 pm
My favourite metaphor for the job when I did it over on the other Wheel, was actually gardening: encouraging flowers to flourish and removing the occasional weed. Every gardener knows that weeds take over if left unchecked.
I like this idea - gardening is the appropriate metaphor.
Weeds are just flowers in the wrong place. ;)
Yes, but I think gardening is the right metaphor because the gardener is only the assistant - the plants grow by themselves, but the gardener helps them along. Sometimes the gardener needs to prune, but because its healthier for the plant.

Alternative metaphors could be machine operator (connotations of mechanism, force), shepherd (perhaps a little denigrating to the sheep), cook or chef (perhaps doesn't give the ingredients the autonomy they deserve).

Farmer is another, as good as gardener really, but I prefer gardener. A gardener isn't about dominating the plants, but also isn't allowing the garden to lose its shape, to go wild.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun May 27, 2018 10:36 am

the proper analogy would be the gardeners planting weeds!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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ieee23
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by ieee23 » Sun May 27, 2018 12:30 pm

budo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:23 am
The more off topic this forum becomes, the more dilluted the quality of the topics, the more monks you push away, the more this place attracts people who come to argue things that are off topic. The forum will decline in participants who take the dhamma seriously and will be replaced by people who take neither politics nor the dhamma seriously.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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SDC
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by SDC » Sun May 27, 2018 2:26 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:36 am
the proper analogy would be the gardeners planting weeds!!
Here we are asking for input from members and all you want to do is troll the moderators. Not surprised.

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DNS
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by DNS » Sun May 27, 2018 3:35 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:23 pm
My favourite metaphor for the job when I did it over on the other Wheel, was actually gardening: encouraging flowers to flourish and removing the occasional weed. Every gardener knows that weeds take over if left unchecked.
Don't some racists like to use the weed-metaphor? Here come the weeds, over-taking the rose garden; just as in "here come x minority group coming in to over-take the neighborhood."

Some weeds grow up to be beautiful plants, looking almost like trees. Isn't it a cultural and subjective thing to decide which plants are beautiful and which ones are ugly? :tongue:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by rightviewftw » Sun May 27, 2018 4:03 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:35 pm
Some weeds grow up to be beautiful plants, looking almost like trees. Isn't it a cultural and subjective thing to decide which plants are beautiful and which ones are ugly? :tongue:
there is a Sutta that talks about a certain type of "Weeds"
"The practice of Dhamma, [1] the practice of continence, [2] mastery of this is said to be best if a person has gone forth from home to the homeless life. But if he is garrulous and, like a brute, delights in hurting others, his life is evil and his impurity increases.

"A quarrelsome bhikkhu shrouded by delusion, does not comprehend the Dhamma taught by the Awakened One when it is revealed. Annoying those practiced in meditation, being led by ignorance, he is not aware that his defiled path leads to Niraya-hell. Falling headlong, passing from womb to womb, from darkness to (greater) darkness, such a bhikkhu undergoes suffering hereafter for certain.

"As a cesspool filled over a number of years is difficult to clean, similarly, whoever is full of impurity is difficult to make pure. Whoever you know to be such, bhikkhus, bent on worldliness, having wrong desires, wrong thoughts, wrong behavior and resort, being completely united avoid him, sweep him out like dirt, remove him like rubbish. Winnow like chaff the non-recluses. Having ejected those of wrong desires, of wrong behavior and resort, be pure and mindful, dwelling with those who are pure. Being united and prudent you will make an end to suffering."
Notes

1.
Dhammacariya.
2.
Brahmacariya, the divine-life, the practice of purity or chastity. Dhammacariya and Brahmacariya are two closely related terms. "Dhamma" being used here in the sense of virtue or good conduct.
This Sutta talks about those who have gone forth into homelessness, a householder displaying these traits is likely to be even more filthy imo.
here is a checklist i would use;

[ ] quarrelsome
[ ] rejects Sutta
[ ] has own theories or follows a different doctrine
[ ] Annoys meditators
[ ] advocates breaking precepts
[ ] Bent on worldliness

Display of any of these traits would make me keep an eye on them and if they get 4 or 5 i would surely be taking action against them.

I would consider adding;
[ ] avoids legitimately posed questions

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budo
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by budo » Sun May 27, 2018 4:49 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:03 pm
DNS wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:35 pm
Some weeds grow up to be beautiful plants, looking almost like trees. Isn't it a cultural and subjective thing to decide which plants are beautiful and which ones are ugly? :tongue:
there is a Sutta that talks about a certain type of "Weeds"
"The practice of Dhamma, [1] the practice of continence, [2] mastery of this is said to be best if a person has gone forth from home to the homeless life. But if he is garrulous and, like a brute, delights in hurting others, his life is evil and his impurity increases.

"A quarrelsome bhikkhu shrouded by delusion, does not comprehend the Dhamma taught by the Awakened One when it is revealed. Annoying those practiced in meditation, being led by ignorance, he is not aware that his defiled path leads to Niraya-hell. Falling headlong, passing from womb to womb, from darkness to (greater) darkness, such a bhikkhu undergoes suffering hereafter for certain.

"As a cesspool filled over a number of years is difficult to clean, similarly, whoever is full of impurity is difficult to make pure. Whoever you know to be such, bhikkhus, bent on worldliness, having wrong desires, wrong thoughts, wrong behavior and resort, being completely united avoid him, sweep him out like dirt, remove him like rubbish. Winnow like chaff the non-recluses. Having ejected those of wrong desires, of wrong behavior and resort, be pure and mindful, dwelling with those who are pure. Being united and prudent you will make an end to suffering."
Notes

1.
Dhammacariya.
2.
Brahmacariya, the divine-life, the practice of purity or chastity. Dhammacariya and Brahmacariya are two closely related terms. "Dhamma" being used here in the sense of virtue or good conduct.
This Sutta talks about those who have gone forth into homelessness, a householder displaying these traits is likely to be even more filthy imo.
here is a checklist i would use;

[ ] quarrelsome
[ ] rejects Sutta
[ ] has own theories or follows a different doctrine
[ ] Annoys meditators
[ ] advocates breaking precepts
[ ] Bent on worldliness

Display of any of these traits would make me keep an eye on them and if they get 4 or 5 i would surely be taking action against them.

I would consider adding;
[ ] avoids legitimately posed questions
+1

If the mods really don't want to ban them they should just restrict them to the lounge subforum where they can ramble on to their heart's content without derailing every single thread on the main forum.

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DNS
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by DNS » Sun May 27, 2018 6:47 pm

budo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:49 pm
If the mods really don't want to ban them they should just restrict them to the lounge subforum where they can ramble on to their heart's content without derailing every single thread on the main forum.
I can assure you we still suspend and ban people who violate the terms of service and we also remove inappropriate posts. We are simply trying to figure out what to do about the heated debates and conflicts, some of which are not violations of terms of service, but simply different political views where opposing sides sometimes get nasty, but just below the point of violating any rules.

dharmacorps
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by dharmacorps » Sun May 27, 2018 7:58 pm

I voted to remove it. I've never felt that political "debates" of any kind have positively influenced DW, but seems to just echo the toxic bipolar reactive politics of society at large unfortunately.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 8:29 pm

I think it should stay, as it's a part of life which can be handled in a dhammic manner. But it's hard to do so, I think that's clear. I just opted out.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 8:43 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:47 pm
budo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:49 pm
If the mods really don't want to ban them they should just restrict them to the lounge subforum where they can ramble on to their heart's content without derailing every single thread on the main forum.
I can assure you we still suspend and ban people who violate the terms of service and we also remove inappropriate posts. We are simply trying to figure out what to do about the heated debates and conflicts, some of which are not violations of terms of service, but simply different political views where opposing sides sometimes get nasty, but just below the point of violating any rules.
Hi David

Look at this post David. Look at the meme. This is from your admin. Do you think this kind of post helps? Does it set a good tone?

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29216&start=540#p472905

ieee23
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by ieee23 » Sun May 27, 2018 8:44 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:29 pm
I think it should stay, as it's a part of life which can be handled in a dhammic manner. But it's hard to do so, I think that's clear. I just opted out.
but it rarely is...

Weight training can you make stronger if the amount of stress is right, or it can break you down if it is too much.

I think political discussions are too much for most of the people here.

I say remove it.

Plenty of people getting good ranting about politics, very few getting better at right effort.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:43 pm
DNS wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:47 pm
budo wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:49 pm
If the mods really don't want to ban them they should just restrict them to the lounge subforum where they can ramble on to their heart's content without derailing every single thread on the main forum.
I can assure you we still suspend and ban people who violate the terms of service and we also remove inappropriate posts. We are simply trying to figure out what to do about the heated debates and conflicts, some of which are not violations of terms of service, but simply different political views where opposing sides sometimes get nasty, but just below the point of violating any rules.
Hi David

Look at this post David. Look at the meme. This is from your admin. Do you think this kind of post helps? Does it set a good tone?

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29216&start=540#p472905
Whats a good tone?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 8:51 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:47 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:43 pm
DNS wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:47 pm


I can assure you we still suspend and ban people who violate the terms of service and we also remove inappropriate posts. We are simply trying to figure out what to do about the heated debates and conflicts, some of which are not violations of terms of service, but simply different political views where opposing sides sometimes get nasty, but just below the point of violating any rules.
Hi David

Look at this post David. Look at the meme. This is from your admin. Do you think this kind of post helps? Does it set a good tone?

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=29216&start=540#p472905
Whats a good tone?
Not that for a Dhamma website.

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