Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.

In relation to "News, Current Events & Politics", I believe such discussion...

Should continue to be allowed at Dhamma Wheel, as is, because the Dhamma can influence how we see the world, and vice versa.
8
23%
Should go back to being in the Lounge, because having a dedicated section seems to give it too much prominence.
8
23%
Is fine in theory, but has become too difficult to manage in 2018, given people's attachment to views and widespread political polarization.
3
9%
Is fine in theory, but staff need to clamp down harder on serial offenders who cannot abide by the rules of that section.
1
3%
Is fine in theory, but staff unfairly oppress me and don't let me express my views.
1
3%
Should be prohibited at Dhamma Wheel altogether, because the topics and potential disputes tend to detract from the true purpose of the forum.
12
34%
Should be prohibited at Dhamma Wheel, altogether because worldly matters and religious matters should be kept separate.
1
3%
Is... (something else altogether, please explain below)
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 10:05 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:51 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:40 pm
That's true. I was assuming ceteris paribus. Which side is against the odds?
The leadership of this forum is pro-Trump. One administrator openly supports him, and while the other isn't a supporter, his disagreement is too feeble to make a difference.

If one isn't pro-Trump, one is going to have trouble at this forum, in one way or another, in the News section or outside of it. But more likely in the privacy of one' smind.

And it all doesn't really have all that much to do with Trump per se, but with the qualities he represents, notably the competitiveness and the combativeness.

I think all that formal focus on the "spiritual and intellectual autonomy" of the members is actually just an excuse for not caring.

In line with the Theory of Evolution (and the concomitant Social Darwinism) it makes perfect sense to support Trump and the qualities he represents. But why fret then? Just get rid of the misfits and the worthless and be done with it, no polls and no threads needed.
In my own experience both offline and online, pro Trump people are largely looked down on as morally deficient, which is a presumptuous generalisation. I don't know if this is a fact, but it is how it appears to me.

The focus on autonomy of the members is because that is the only way to run a system where there are discrepant viewpoints without the system favouring one group.

If there were evidence of the forum administration using their admin-powers ( :jedi: ) to suppress viewpoints they didn't like, that would be an issue. But I don't think that is the same as an admin supporting Trump.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 10:10 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:56 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:31 pm
Genuinely, what specifically is wrong with the meme? Is there something wrong with the Stalin meme I posted? Is the same thing wrong with both?
I don't care for either, but particularly the Stalin one. The other appears to me to be just juvenile humour (and poor graphic design), so if one doesn't agree with the sentiment, at one can have at least have a laugh at the shortcomings of the presentation... However, the Stalin meme appears to be making a joke out of the suffering and deaths of millions of people.

:heart:
Mike
I think humour is a valid way to deal with extremely unpleasant things. There's evidence that they are linked, and that humour recontextualises painful emotion in a healthy way. There is even evidence that 'hostile joking', essentially being an asshole, is good for people in disadvantaged positions.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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retrofuturist
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 27, 2018 10:16 pm

Greetings Binocular,
binocular wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:51 pm
If one isn't pro-Trump, one is going to have trouble at this forum, in one way or another, in the News section or outside of it.
How so? Moderators moderate that section in accordance with the rules of that section, not their politics. And... even with that being so, the pro-Trump contributions are still a minority. I suspect the problem has more to do with what Pseudobabble said earlier about the left and right usually living in algorithmically separated online communities... and the intolerance of some people to co-exist with those who dare to disagree with them.
binocular wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:51 pm
But more likely in the privacy of one's mind.
That's a far more relevant point, and when push comes to shove it's not really Dhamma Wheel's job to break open the hermetically sealed echo chambers that exist elsewhere and expose certain members to perspectives that they're seemingly incapable of tolerating, or even having a sense of humour or good will about.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Sam Vara
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 10:17 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:05 pm
The focus on autonomy of the members is because that is the only way to run a system where there are discrepant viewpoints without the system favouring one group.
Correct, but it also goes deeper. The respect for the autonomy of the members is also in line with what the Buddha said regarding our kamma. People are individually responsible for how they react to what arises.

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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 27, 2018 10:24 pm

Greetings,

Two good observations...
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:17 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:05 pm
The focus on autonomy of the members is because that is the only way to run a system where there are discrepant viewpoints without the system favouring one group.
Correct, but it also goes deeper. The respect for the autonomy of the members is also in line with what the Buddha said regarding our kamma. People are individually responsible for how they react to what arises.
By clearly separating Person A's "action" from Person B's "reaction" we can...

- Assess Person A's actions on their own merits, vis-a-vis the Terms of Service

- Assign Person B's negative reaction as theirs and theirs alone. This way, their grievances can't be successfully weaponized through grievance mongering in a culture of protest, in order to get their own way. No amount of bitching and moaning overrides the reality we do and will moderate according to the Terms Of Service. (This drives a couple of our resident dour grievance mongers crazy, but in keeping with the principle of autonomy, that poor reaction and its vipaka is on them)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Sam Vara
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Sam Vara » Sun May 27, 2018 10:31 pm

I'm often reminded of Ajahn Chah's famous point about noise when one is trying to meditate.

Did that obnoxious post come and bother you, or did your mind go out and bother the post?

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:16 pm

That's a far more relevant point, and when push comes to shove it's not really Dhamma Wheel's job to break open the hermetically sealed echo chambers that exist elsewhere and expose certain members to perspectives that they're seemingly incapable of tolerating, or even having a sense of humour or good will about.

What are you even on about. You are just posting nonsense. hermetically sealed echo chambers?

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 10:35 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:16 pm

That's a far more relevant point, and when push comes to shove it's not really Dhamma Wheel's job to break open the hermetically sealed echo chambers that exist elsewhere and expose certain members to perspectives that they're seemingly incapable of tolerating, or even having a sense of humour or good will about.

What are you even on about. You are just posting nonsense. hermetically sealed echo chambers?
Places where people all have the same views and nobody disagrees. Fox News, the Guardian. A person from each would not last long at the other.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 10:41 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:35 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:33 pm
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:16 pm

That's a far more relevant point, and when push comes to shove it's not really Dhamma Wheel's job to break open the hermetically sealed echo chambers that exist elsewhere and expose certain members to perspectives that they're seemingly incapable of tolerating, or even having a sense of humour or good will about.

What are you even on about. You are just posting nonsense. hermetically sealed echo chambers?
Places where people all have the same views and nobody disagrees. Fox News, the Guardian. A person from each would not last long at the other.
I guess you see both. I do. I live on a large London council estate and meet all kinds of people every day. Don't you? Which Dhamma Wheel member is living in a hermetically sealed echo chamber?

What Paul is making, now really pay attention and look, is an unsubstantiated slur. He is pushing his agenda (and it is not Buddhist).

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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 27, 2018 10:52 pm

Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:41 pm
What Paul is making, now really pay attention and look, is an unsubstantiated slur. He is pushing his agenda (and it is not Buddhist).
What "unsubstantiated slur" is that? Now, do speak clearly Mr Man.

I'm also rather curious about this supposedly "not Buddhist" agenda that I have. Do tell.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 10:59 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:52 pm
Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:41 pm
What Paul is making, now really pay attention and look, is an unsubstantiated slur. He is pushing his agenda (and it is not Buddhist).
What "unsubstantiated slur" is that? Now, do speak clearly Mr Man.

I'm also rather curious about this supposedly "not Buddhist" agenda that I have. Do tell.
This Paul
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 10:52 pm
That's a far more relevant point, and when push comes to shove it's not really Dhamma Wheel's job to break open the hermetically sealed echo chambers that exist elsewhere and expose certain members to perspectives that they're seemingly incapable of tolerating, or even having a sense of humour or good will about.
Your pro-trump right wing agenda is not Buddhist. And it is all over this forum.

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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 27, 2018 11:06 pm

Greetings Mr Man,

There's a previous topic where I outlined how my political views evolved from my Dhamma views. You're welcome to see things differently, because unlike you, I actually respect your intellectual autonomy to see things differently.

Is it your contention that Buddhists are not allowed to have conservative or libertarian political views? If so, on what basis do you come to that conclusion, other than through your own intolerance?

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 11:19 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:06 pm
Greetings Mr Man,

There's a previous topic where I outlined how my political views evolved from my Dhamma views. You're welcome to see things differently, because unlike you, I actually respect your intellectual autonomy to see things differently.

Is it your contention that Buddhists are not allowed to have conservative or libertarian political views? If so, on what basis, other than your own intolerance?

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
I also respect intellectual autonomy

It is not my contention that Buddhists are not allowed to have conservative or libertarian political views.

I just don't think the admin should be posting silly memes and constantly showing his political bias. Do you?

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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by retrofuturist » Sun May 27, 2018 11:28 pm

Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:19 pm
I just don't think the admin should be posting silly memes and constantly showing his political bias. Do you?
I think that I have views, just like anyone.

I also believe I have zero bias when it comes to moderating and adminstrating a forum, which is the role I have been tasked to do here. I think my track record and commitment to allowing all views to be expressed without discrimination or abuse speaks for itself. In the past (both here, and previously at E-Sangha) behind the scenes I have also stood up against bias and discrimination - often as a lone voice in doing so, in the face of vociferous opposition.

Therefore, if you believe you have more than mere aspersion to back up your accusations of bias, do please raise a formal complaint via David. Do you have a legitimate case for accusations of bias, or is this merely today's serving of the incessant grievance mongering that you bless us with, year after year?

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Member Poll on "News, Current Events & Politics" at DW

Post by Mr Man » Sun May 27, 2018 11:37 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:28 pm
Greetings Mr Man,
Mr Man wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:19 pm
I just don't think the admin should be posting silly memes and constantly showing his political bias. Do you?
I think that I have views, just like anyone.

I also believe I have zero bias when it comes to moderating and adminstrating a forum, which is the role I have been tasked to do here. I think my track record and commitment to allowing all views to be expressed without discrimination or abuse speaks for itself.

If you believe you have more than mere aspersion to back up your accusations of bias, so please raise a formal complaint via David. Do you have a legitimate case for accusations of bias, or is this merely today's serving of the incessant grievance mongering that you bless us with, year after year?

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Are you seriously trying to say you do not have and show your political bias on this forum? Please try and read and respond to what is actually written.

Does the meme which I have referred to show a strong political bias?

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