Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16542
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:22 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:18 am
You just don't know enough extremist news outlets. :sage: :thinking: Perhap's thats a good thing.
Well, of course, I've seen people ranting on the Internet about such things, but it doesn't seem particularly relevant to anything I've experienced in real life... Perhaps Canada and New Zealand are special... :toast:

:heart:
Mike

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:28 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:17 am
Greetings Coëmgenu,

Interesting...

So based on your post here, where you insist I am "alt-right" and in this post you say "How do you tell if someone is an alt-righter? They talk about the wicked system (gynocentrism) that is destroying us."

So... are you alleging that I'm saying "gynocentrism is destroying us"?

Metta,
Paul. :)
Its one of many ways. Basically the alt-right and the alt-left each have a group of mutually opposed buzzwords that they identify as the key area from which "the degeneracy" originates. Other mutually opposed buzzwords I could have used were "racists" and "race-baiters". They are many more.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:33 am

Greetings Coëmgenu,

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:36 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:33 am
Greetings Coëmgenu,

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...
This is your usual MO. We've had discussions about identity politics here in the past before.

Saying "I'm free from X and Y extremes" is not the same as actually being free from X and Y extremes.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:38 am

Greetings Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:36 am
Saying "I'm free for X and Y extremes" is not being free from X and Y extremes.
It is saying that this is the truth, Right View. Why would I willingly accept an ideology which deviates in such a way from Right View?

Clue: I wouldn't.... despite your arrogance in assuming, and then insisting that you can define my politics for me.

:hello:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:39 am

For instance, I can say that all phenomena are free from four extremes, by quoting the negative tetralemma.

Does this actually mean that I have realized DO? No, it just means I've quoted some Nāgārjunavacana.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:40 am

Greetings,

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:40 am
Greetings,

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thats a rather nasty trick. My post was not off topic.

If my post about the four extremes was off topic, than your post about the two extremes was as well.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:50 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:39 am
For instance, I can say that all phenomena are free from four extremes, by quoting the negative tetralemma.

Does this actually mean that I have realized DO? No, it just means I've quoted some Nāgārjunavacana.
Since this is being considered off-topic, I figure it may be a service to the forum to contextualize it.

My companion in conversation posted this adapted scripture, adapted from the Kaccayanagottasutta:

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...


My companion in conversation is claiming to be free of this identity and that identity, in short, free of the extremes posited by the Buddha in this scripture.

I can quote scripture similarly:

Not from itself, not from another, not from both, nor without cause:
Never in any way is there any existing thing that has arisen.


If I were to claim that I were free from the extremes presented therein, I would be guilty of vainglorious prelest.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:56 am

Greetings Coëmgenu,

:offtopic:
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am
If my post about the four extremes was off topic, than your post about the two extremes was as well.
No it's not. I'm allowed to refute false allegations made against me, as well as misrepresentations of my views... and so are you. You're merely fortunate that you cast such aspersions here rather than in the News section...
NewsTOS wrote:2. Whilst you may critique ideas, you may not attack or smear members who ascribe to such views, or who are perceived by you (rightly or wrongly) to be holders of those views.
Now, for the last time...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:59 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:56 am
Greetings Coëmgenu,

:offtopic:
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am
If my post about the four extremes was off topic, than your post about the two extremes was as well.
No it's not. I'm allowed to refute false allegations made against me, as well as misrepresentations of my views... and so are you. You're merely fortunate that you cast such aspersions here rather than in the News section...
NewsTOS wrote:2. Whilst you may critique ideas, you may not attack or smear members who ascribe to such views, or who are perceived by you (rightly or wrongly) to be holders of those views.
Now, for the last time...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
This is a nasty trick, as I've said before. These posts are not off topic. We're having a conversation about exactly what the OP is about.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:00 pm

I'm screenshotting this entire thread. I don't trust the moderation.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:04 pm

Greetings Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:00 pm
I'm screenshotting this entire thread. I don't trust the moderation.
No more disruptive meta-discussion please...
TOS2e wrote:Disruptive meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about discussion, including in-topic complaints about the existence of discussions that don't suit your preferences)
It's a violation of the Terms of Service.

As are...
TOS2d wrote:Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals
Please bring yourself under control.
TOS4 wrote:We expect you to be personally responsible for your own emotions and responses.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:09 pm

My posts are directly relevant to the OP, they just upset you. You think you are above the extremes in the scripture you quoted to me. You said as much here:

It is saying that this is the truth, Right View. Why would I willingly accept an ideology which deviates in such a way from Right View?

If you do not think that you are subscribe to views that are wrong, in short, if you think that you do not willing accept wrong ideologies, in turn, you cannot think that you are wrong on many other issues pertinent to the OP.

This is extremely relevant and based on your words. Not accusations from me.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20280
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:14 pm

Greetings Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:09 pm
My posts are directly relevant to the OP, they just upset you.
I'm not upset, and in fact, I find your insolence mildly entertaining. That said, I am genuinely disappointed at your ongoing failures to abide by all manner of aspects of the Terms of Service.
2d. Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions - including psychoanalyzing other members
How many informal warnings are required?

:shrug:

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests