Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,
mikenz66 wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:55 am Interesting. I hear about this odd species from time to time on this Forum, and they certainly sound alarming, but I don't believe I've ever encountered one. Perhaps they are only exist in certain environments...
You can usually discern if someone holds this view depending on whether they applying "moral relativism" when dealing with the actions and behaviour of people of different races, genders, sexualities and so on.

For example, if the Cultural Marxist sees a white person being racist towards a black person they will see that as morally repugnant... but, if it's a black person being racist towards a white person, then they will think that's acceptable, and perhaps even praise the black person for speaking up and sharing their feelings.

At Dhamma Wheel, we don't allow anyone to be racist towards another member.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 am I'm very sorry, but IMO the term alt-righter is not synonymous with racist and is not a morally repugnant thing to be.
That depends on your definition of what alt-right is. Note also I did say "to whatever extent you may be falsely implying that I'm "white supremacist". If that extent is zero, then good.
Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 am I don't consider calling you one an insult, rather, an accurate summation of how you present yourself on this forum.
So, now Coëmgenu usurps my intellectual autonomy and defines my politics, and tells me what my views are. Interesting.
Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 am Now we've reached the impasse that Mr Man spoke about. You think it is morally reprehensible and "attacking" you to call you an alt-righter, perhaps presumably because you think being an alt-righter is something especially more wicked or frowned-upon than being an "SJW"? I do not.
No, again, your interpretation is based upon a false interpretation of what I said. I repeat... "to whatever extent you may be"... If that extent is zero, then good.

It is cool to respect the spiritual and intellectual autonomy of others. 8-)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:03 am For example, if the Cultural Marxist sees a white person being racist towards a black person they will see that as morally repugnant... but, if it's a black person being racist towards a white person, then they will think that's acceptable, and perhaps even praise the black person for speaking up and sharing their feelings.
Hmm, doesn't ring any bells. I guess I'll have to get out more if I want to find such a specimen...

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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Coëmgenu,

Interesting...

So based on your post here, where you insist I am "alt-right" and in this post you say "How do you tell if someone is an alt-righter? They talk about the wicked system (gynocentrism) that is destroying us."

So... are you alleging that I'm saying "gynocentrism is destroying us"?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

mikenz66 wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:14 am
retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:03 am For example, if the Cultural Marxist sees a white person being racist towards a black person they will see that as morally repugnant... but, if it's a black person being racist towards a white person, then they will think that's acceptable, and perhaps even praise the black person for speaking up and sharing their feelings.
Hmm, doesn't ring any bells. I guess I'll have to get out more if I want to find such a specimen...
You just don't know enough politically radical news outlets. :sage: :thinking: Perhap's thats a good thing.

https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/bl ... -be-racist

That being said, I was expecting at least a mention of the Frankfurt school. After all, that is the conspiracy theory we are talking about here.

http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/ ... f-america/
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by mikenz66 »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:18 am You just don't know enough extremist news outlets. :sage: :thinking: Perhap's thats a good thing.
Well, of course, I've seen people ranting on the Internet about such things, but it doesn't seem particularly relevant to anything I've experienced in real life... Perhaps Canada and New Zealand are special... :toast:

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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:17 am Greetings Coëmgenu,

Interesting...

So based on your post here, where you insist I am "alt-right" and in this post you say "How do you tell if someone is an alt-righter? They talk about the wicked system (gynocentrism) that is destroying us."

So... are you alleging that I'm saying "gynocentrism is destroying us"?

Metta,
Paul. :)
Its one of many ways. Basically the alt-right and the alt-left each have a group of mutually opposed buzzwords that they identify as the key area from which "the degeneracy" originates. Other mutually opposed buzzwords I could have used were "racists" and "race-baiters". They are many more.
What is the Uncreated?
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It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Coëmgenu,

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:33 am Greetings Coëmgenu,

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...
This is your usual MO. We've had discussions about identity politics here in the past before.

Saying "I'm free from X and Y extremes" is not the same as actually being free from X and Y extremes.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Coëmgenu,
Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:36 am Saying "I'm free for X and Y extremes" is not being free from X and Y extremes.
It is saying that this is the truth, Right View. Why would I willingly accept an ideology which deviates in such a way from Right View?

Clue: I wouldn't.... despite your arrogance in assuming, and then insisting that you can define my politics for me.

:hello:

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

For instance, I can say that all phenomena are free from four extremes, by quoting the negative tetralemma.

Does this actually mean that I have realized DO? No, it just means I've quoted some Nāgārjunavacana.
What is the Uncreated?
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It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

retrofuturist wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:40 am Greetings,

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thats a rather nasty trick. My post was not off topic.

If my post about the four extremes was off topic, than your post about the two extremes was as well.
What is the Uncreated?
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It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by Coëmgenu »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:39 am For instance, I can say that all phenomena are free from four extremes, by quoting the negative tetralemma.

Does this actually mean that I have realized DO? No, it just means I've quoted some Nāgārjunavacana.
Since this is being considered off-topic, I figure it may be a service to the forum to contextualize it.

My companion in conversation posted this adapted scripture, adapted from the Kaccayanagottasutta:

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of this identity & that identity. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'this identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'that identity' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Coëmgenu, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Coëmgenu, that there is right view.

This identity: That is one extreme. ' That identity': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the truth is understood via the middle...


My companion in conversation is claiming to be free of this identity and that identity, in short, free of the extremes posited by the Buddha in this scripture.

I can quote scripture similarly:

Not from itself, not from another, not from both, nor without cause:
Never in any way is there any existing thing that has arisen.


If I were to claim that I were free from the extremes presented therein, I would be guilty of vainglorious prelest.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Free speech, mere offense, direct harm & antisemitism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Coëmgenu,

:offtopic:
Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am If my post about the four extremes was off topic, than your post about the two extremes was as well.
No it's not. I'm allowed to refute false allegations made against me, as well as misrepresentations of my views... and so are you. You're merely fortunate that you cast such aspersions here rather than in the News section...
NewsTOS wrote:2. Whilst you may critique ideas, you may not attack or smear members who ascribe to such views, or who are perceived by you (rightly or wrongly) to be holders of those views.
Now, for the last time...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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