Curse from member claiming to be arahant

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No_Mind
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Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am

ToS

2d Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions - including psychoanalyzing other members, and predictions or threats of kammic retribution

Yesterday a member wrote that I had committed sin against a Noble One.

I asked which Noble One (I was genuinely confused) at which he PMed me to say he was an "arahant" and he was forced to tell me due to pacittiya 8 (tell me he was an arahant). Apparently my crime had been to argue with him.

Before I could preserve the text of the threat of kammic retribution from forum and complain to admin Paul, mod SDC removed the offensive post.

Now, this person cannot have been doing this to me alone. Such bullying behavior is never isolated.

What plan does admin and moderator team have to deal with such an occurrence?

What if I was mentally disturbed and thought that I had committed a grave error and I committed suicide or did something stupid?

Does the admin and mod team not have a moral responsibility towards welfare of its members?

Twice strangers have PMed me claiming to be "stream enterers" which I wrote off as babbling by delusional people.

But something akin to a curse!

Does the admin and mod team team not have a moral responsibility apart from deleting everything they can lay their hands on without considering that there maybe evidence of bullying, threats and curse in them?

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mikenz66
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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:24 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am
...
Just to clarify, moderators do not delete posts, we move them out of public view, so we are able to review them at a later time.

Moderators do not have access to PMs, so if a member has a problem with a PM they will need to send a copy to a moderator.

A general note:
If a member feels that a post is against the Terms of Service, the most efficient thing to do is to use the report button [!] to explain why you think it is against the ToS. This will alert any moderator who is logged in at the time. After reporting it, it would be appreciated (by the Mods) if you wait for a response (which may take some time as we may need to discuss the issue) and do not argue with the post. If there is a long and heated exchange it can become very difficult disentagle the "first cause", and it can be time-consuming to remove the offending posts without destroying the continuity of the thread.

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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:29 am

Greetings No_Mind,
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am
What plan does admin and moderator team have to deal with such an occurrence?
Send us a copy of anything you believe infringes the Terms of Service, but make sure before you do so that you can actually identify which component of the Terms of Service has been violated.
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am
What if I was mentally disturbed and thought that I had committed a grave error and I committed suicide or did something stupid?
That would be your action. (See TOS extract below)
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am
Does the admin and mod team not have a moral responsibility towards welfare of its members?
We are not your parents - we do what we can to ensure this forum operates in accordance with the Terms of Service. These same Terms of Service also say...

TOS #4: At Dhamma Wheel, we respect your intellectual and spiritual autonomy. As such, the staff here will not enforce reverence to anyone or anything, nor censor speech gratuitously. In keeping with this respect for your autonomy, we expect you to be personally responsible for your own emotions and responses.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:35 am

Thank you Mike for your kind response.

My point was should those who self proclaim to be a Noble One be allowed to bring in rules of Vinaya and say that one has committed a sin against a Noble One?

Should such a member not be severely censured? While the post was still up I had PMed Paul and David the text via which the person claimed he/she had "Achieved realization of Nibbana on 10.11.2015" (which I took to mean he/she was claiming to be an arahant)

Since neither Paul or David had anything constructive to say about the matter, I felt it to be my responsibility to share the incident with a wider audience. I know well that bullying is never isolated and next time it maybe against someone with a weaker mental constitution than me with devastating effects.

I have put the matter in public domain and have nothing further to add.

Edit Add -

Paul, I am not arguing but putting it out in public domain. I feel ToS should be amended in light of this incident. It was funny to me and I had a good laugh. Next time around it may not be funny to a more sensitive person (there are sensitive and anxious people aplenty here)

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DooDoot
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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by DooDoot » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:27 am

I merely get threatening PMs from puthujjana grasping translations like a poisonous snake. No arahants come to me. :tantrum:
Then the thought occurred to Ven. Pukkusati: "Surely, the Teacher has come to me! Surely, the One Well-gone has come to me! Surely, the Rightly Self-awakened One has come to me!" Getting up from his seat, arranging his upper robe over one shoulder, and bowing down with his head at the Blessed One's feet, he said, "A transgression has overcome me, lord, in that I was so foolish, so muddle-headed, and so unskilled as to assume that it was proper to address the Blessed One as 'friend.' May the Blessed One please accept this confession of my transgression as such, so that I may achieve restraint in the future."

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:40 am

Ooh yeah I'd love it if an "arahat" got annoyed with me, enough to tell me I had incurred great negative kama.
I'd then continually try to provoke or annoy them, thus proving they're not enlightened. :woohoo:

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No_Mind
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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:15 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:40 am
Ooh yeah I'd love it if an "arahat" got annoyed with me, enough to tell me I had incurred great negative kama.
I'd then continually try to provoke or annoy them, thus proving they're not enlightened. :woohoo:
That would be a way to deal with him.

What I am more worried about is he could use this against weaker people. He has expressed in many posts strong desire to join monastery and that would give him exposure to lot of vulnerable people.

In my experience, two types of people attend Dhamma talks - more intelligent and strong minded (who are there to learn) and less intelligent and weak minded (who are there to be "saved"). He would have access to lot of weak people.

I hope he does not cause harm to innocents. For the first time since I have been on this forum, I am dead serious.

:namaste:
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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by binocular » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:42 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:35 am
My point was should those who self proclaim to be a Noble One be allowed to bring in rules of Vinaya and say that one has committed a sin against a Noble One?
Well, this is a Buddhist forum. Expect some characteristically Buddhist activity.
I know well that bullying is never isolated and next time it maybe against someone with a weaker mental constitution than me with devastating effects.
/.../
I feel ToS should be amended in light of this incident. It was funny to me and I had a good laugh. Next time around it may not be funny to a more sensitive person (there are sensitive and anxious people aplenty here)
This is simply what religion is like. If someone can't stand the heat, they shouldn't go into the kitchen.

When it comes to religion, you're on your own, and noone is coming to save you.

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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:21 pm

binocular wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:42 pm
When it comes to religion, you're on your own, and noone is coming to save you.
That is probably true. But from yesterday I am filled with indescribable sadness that the pristine Dhamma has been sullied in this way.

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Re: Curse from member claiming to be arahant

Post by SDC » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:27 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:41 am
Does the admin and mod team team not have a moral responsibility apart from deleting everything they can lay their hands on without considering that there maybe evidence of bullying, threats and curse in them?
I'll say it again even though it has already been said: we don't delete posts. We preserve them in an archive and can refer to them if necessary. So please relax with the accusations.

We're looking into the details of this bizarre situation and will notify the involved members of the result.

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