ban heretics

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SDC
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Re: ban heretics

Post by SDC » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:50 pm

Dylan, I actually have a soft spot for you and your crew and what you have been doing over the last month or so, but if we aren't good enough for you guys then maybe DW isn't for you. Your infiltration was lost from the get go because you guys never took the time to build trust with anyone. You can't change a place when you aren't relating to the people. So either stick around, and work your way into the fabric, or log out. I don't like to see eager practitioners leave, but if all you guys want to do is try and throw your weight around, how is that going to be good for anyone?

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pilgrim
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Re: ban heretics

Post by pilgrim » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:53 pm

In a Theravada group, heretics would necessarily include those who question the authenticity and authority of the Abhidhamma and the Commentaries. :stirthepot:

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: ban heretics

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:10 am

Even monks don't ban heretic monks, until very specific formal acts are done in a full meeting of the sangha. In the vinaya there has to be a quorum of sangha, then three formal admonitions and invitations to the heretic monk to give up pushing their heretic views, and then the sangha can vote on teling them to leave the monastery. Even then, the heretic monk can just ignore the will of the sangha. And in that case it's just up to the sangha to ignore the heretic monk if he keeps staying at the monastery.
So the Buddha didn't really make it easy to silence heresy.

Justsit
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Re: ban heretics

Post by Justsit » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:24 am

TOS here do not include a religious requirement for membership. Anyone who meets TOS may post, including non-Buddhists and Mahayana/Vajrayana Buddhists.

This is a privately run website, and Mr. Snyder has kindly organized and managed it, and Dharmawheel, successfully for a number of years. It is his prerogative to run it the way chooses.

If the OP does not agree with the terms here, perhaps he should start his own site.

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Kim OHara
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Re: ban heretics

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:10 am
Even monks don't ban heretic monks, until very specific formal acts are done in a full meeting of the sangha. In the vinaya there has to be a quorum of sangha, then three formal admonitions and invitations to the heretic monk to give up pushing their heretic views, and then the sangha can vote on teling them to leave the monastery. Even then, the heretic monk can just ignore the will of the sangha. And in that case it's just up to the sangha to ignore the heretic monk if he keeps staying at the monastery.
So the Buddha didn't really make it easy to silence heresy.
:goodpost:
And the definition of heresy is essentially left to the judgement of the sangha, i.e. the majority, on a case-by-case basis.
In this case, we have a minority wanting to ban the majority. That is not the way it works, is it?
Justsit wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:24 am
TOS here do not include a religious requirement for membership. Anyone who meets TOS may post, including non-Buddhists and Mahayana/Vajrayana Buddhists.

This is a privately run website, and Mr. Snyder has kindly organized and managed it, and Dharmawheel, successfully for a number of years. It is his prerogative to run it the way chooses.

If the OP does not agree with the terms here, perhaps he should start his own site.
That looks like a better solution.

:namaste:
Kim

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ryanM
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Re: ban heretics

Post by ryanM » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:54 am

Monty Python witch burning scene popped into my head.
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya

"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"

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No_Mind
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Re: ban heretics

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:37 am

oooh :jumping:

An entire thread abut banning me ... oooh .. I am so important :guns:

I have never been given so much importance .. this just made my weekend .. thank you dylanj :bow: for propelling me from obscurity to top of the charts

Let me see .. I am not sure about anatta .. I sometimes feel I have an eternal soul .. and I do believe in Godhead Brahman .. and I do believe quite a few Hindus are/were enlightened (and Christians and Jews and Muslims ...) .. also chant the Gayatri Mantra .. and I believe Buddhism is not unique in leading people to salvation

I pray to Christ at least 30 minutes daily .. I read the Bible .. I say Devotions in early morning .. I pray to arch angels too .. I pray Hail Mary when I need strength and courage

Shiva and Buddha sit besides each other on my altar and sometimes havee to share the same small garland without fighting among themselves .. and of course they share the same incense sticks :smile:

is that enough or should I add more .. oh I was just about to buy silver for making a St Jude locket (the patron saint for lost causes)

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:51 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:37 am
oooh :jumping:

An entire thread abut banning me ... oooh .. I am so important :guns:

I have never been given so much importance .. this just made my weekend .. thank you dylanj :bow: for propelling me from obscurity to top of the charts

Let me see .. I am not sure about anatta .. I sometimes feel I have an eternal soul .. and I do believe in Godhead Brahman .. and I do believe quite a few Hindus are/were enlightened (and Christians and Jews and Muslims ...) .. also chant the Gayatri Mantra .. and I believe Buddhism is not unique in leading people to salvation

I pray to Christ at least 30 minutes daily .. I read the Bible .. I say Devotions in early morning .. I pray to arch angels too .. I pray Hail Mary when I need strength and courage

Shiva and Buddha sit besides each other on my altar and sometimes havee to share the same small garland without fighting among themselves .. and of course they share the same incense sticks :smile:

is that enough or should I add more .. oh I was just about to buy silver for making a St Jude locket (the patron saint for lost causes)

:namaste:
it's about someone else too. anyway i calmed down & changed my mind & don't think you should be banned but i glad you admitted all this publicly
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:53 am

SDC wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:50 pm
Dylan, I actually have a soft spot for you and your crew and what you have been doing over the last month or so, but if we aren't good enough for you guys then maybe DW isn't for you. Your infiltration was lost from the get go because you guys never took the time to build trust with anyone. You can't change a place when you aren't relating to the people. So either stick around, and work your way into the fabric, or log out. I don't like to see eager practitioners leave, but if all you guys want to do is try and throw your weight around, how is that going to be good for anyone?
thanks this is good advice & you are right & i will stop throwing a fit & accept that people on here have views which I think are wrong & try to address that more gently & compassionately

:anjali:
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:55 am

I am concerned still that No_Mind was not upfront about not being a Buddhist but I guess now he has been so he's probably not intentionally doing hindu taqqiya

but the other individual this is about i think identifies as a buddhist as well as a hindu but tends to leave that latter part out even tho they hold what are explicitly wrong views from the point of the suttas

it's very deceitful. if we could put a big bright "HINDU" tag on all their posts that would help
Last edited by dylanj on Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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No_Mind
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Re: ban heretics

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:55 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:51 am
it's about someone else too. anyway i calmed down & changed my mind & don't think you should be banned but i glad you admitted all this publicly
Let me make it crystal clear to you .. I am not sharing my fame with anyone .. I am the heretic-in-chief

BTW what on earth is taqqiya

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:56 am

pilgrim wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:53 pm
In a Theravada group, heretics would necessarily include those who question the authenticity and authority of the Abhidhamma and the Commentaries. :stirthepot:
heh touche
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:57 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:55 am
I am concerned still that No_Mind was not upfront about not being a Buddhist but I guess now he has been so he's probably not intentionally doing hindu taqqiya

but the other individual this is about i think identifies as a buddhist as well as a hindu but tends to leave that latter part out even tho they hold what are explicitly wrong views from the point of the suttas

it's very deceitful. if we could put a big bright "HINDU" tag on all their posts that would help
i just don't want people learning about buddhism for the first time to be misled

actually that's my primary concern with this whole forum
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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No_Mind
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Re: ban heretics

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:05 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:55 am
I am concerned still that No_Mind was not upfront about not being a Buddhist but I guess now he has been so he's probably not intentionally doing hindu taqqiya
I have always been totally upfront about being Buddhist_Lite .. someone trying to follow a syncretic belief system and calls himself Hin-Budd in this forum and real life .. does not believe much in liturgy of either and has decided to take .. say at least 15 years to decide since Right View is the last NP to be developed

At the moment concentrating on sammā sankappa, sammā-vāyāma, sammā-samādhi

That is my to do list till 2028.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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dylanj
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Re: ban heretics

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:07 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:05 am
dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:55 am
I am concerned still that No_Mind was not upfront about not being a Buddhist but I guess now he has been so he's probably not intentionally doing hindu taqqiya
I have always been totally upfront about being Buddhist_Lite .. someone trying to follow a syncretic belief system and calls himself Hin-Budd in this forum and real life .. does not believe much in liturgy of either and has decided to take .. say at least 15 years to decide since Right View is the last NP to be developed

At the moment concentrating on sammā sankappa, sammā-vāyāma, sammā-samādhi

That is my to do list till 2028.

:namaste:
ok, i just didn't get the memo so that's not your fault i guess

right view is the start of the path. you can't do the rest without it

"In a person of wrong view, wrong resolve comes into being. In a person of wrong resolve, wrong speech. In a person of wrong speech, wrong action. In a person of wrong action, wrong livelihood. In a person of wrong livelihood, wrong effort. In a person of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness. In a person of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration. In a person of wrong concentration, wrong knowledge. In a person of wrong knowledge, wrong release.

"This is how from wrongness comes failure, not success."

— AN 10.103
if the aim is wrong you will miss the target

i know you might not take me so seriously but i really encourage you to heavily read the suttas & give the buddha the benefit of the doubt on his claim that teachers outside his following are not possessed of true wisdom
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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