Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.

Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Yes
3
25%
No
9
75%
 
Total votes: 12

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:49 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa :buddha1:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa :buddha2:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa :buddha1:
Section Called: 'Thus it was in the past.' 'Thus it will be in the future.' 'Thus it is now in the present.'
Sub-Section Discussion: Ten Sticky Subjects
  • "He himself is contented and instigates talk on contentment among the monks...

    "He himself is secluded and instigates talk on seclusion among the monks...

    "He himself is non-entangled and instigates talk on non-entanglement among the monks...

    "He himself has his persistence aroused and instigates talk on arousing persistence among the monks...

    "He himself is consummate in virtue and instigates talk on being consummate in virtue among the monks...

    "He himself is consummate in concentration and instigates talk on being consummate in concentration among the monks...

    "He himself is consummate in discernment and instigates talk on being consummate in discernment among the monks...

    "He himself is consummate in release and instigates talk on being consummate in release among the monks...


Exact definitions we can find where needed.

These Guidelines Apply;

Participants are encouraged to:
  • 1. Give a categorical answer to a question deserving a categorical answer
    2. Give an analytical answer to a question deserving an analytical answer
    3. Give a counter-question to a question deserving a counter-question
    4. Put aside a question deserving to be put aside

    5. stand by what is possible and impossible
    6. stand by agreed-upon assumptions
    7. stand by teachings known to be true
    8. stand by standard procedure

    9. Not to wander from one thing to another when asked a question
    10. Not to pull the discussion off the topic when asked a question
    11. Not to express anger & aversion and sulks
Further participants are encouraged to refrain from;
  • 1. Putting down the questioner
    2. Crushing/Pwning the questioner
    3. Ridiculing him the questioner
    4. Grasping at the little mistakes
feedback on this?

For people who want to train a bit more seriously and engage in a more structured discussion of Buddhism, there should be a place to do it.

If moderators dont want to moderate it, we will find moderators.

If all lurkers and active posters signed when if voted

:anjali:
Last edited by rightviewftw on Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 16 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Crazy cloud
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by Crazy cloud » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:59 am

Maybe that's a way to do it!?

I train myself like when I'm aware that one has been too absorbed in quarreling with somebody, and one understands that this debate is actually a contest of "who has the biggest daddy", - I've reached a point where i have made a self that needs to be led to the scaffold!

So then I say to my self: You won't get www before all interest and craving is gone!

That is training to me without anybody else has to change according to my personal needs. And it is so interesting and funny to just watch "the idiot" trying to persuade me to give in, - pure magic to watch him move and finally giving up and die.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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dylanj
Posts: 830
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Location: San Francisco
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Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by dylanj » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:47 am

:thumbsup: in agreement
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:49 am
Suggesting Forum Section moderated according to;
AN 3.67 PTS: A i 197
Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics for Discussion
AN 10.69 PTS: A v 128
Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics of Conversation (1)
AN 10.70 PTS: A v 129
Kathavatthu Sutta: Topics of Conversation (2)
feedback on this?
I predict that such a section would be either:
a) empty, no postings;
b) a gladiator arena, where posters go for the jugular and then claim innocence;
c) a hugbox.

None of the options seem particularly worthwhile.
For people who want to train a bit more seriously and engage in a more structured discussion of Buddhism, there should be a place to do it.
I think that when people are more serious, such a structured discussion naturally emerges, no need to try to impose it externally.
If moderators dont want to moderate it, we will find moderators.
You've got a dozen or so sotapannas at your beck and calling? Cool.
:embarassed:
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:13 am

i think it will be like now -trolls
also whatever does not need to be moderated by those standards just goes to normal sections. i do not see why argue against it.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am
You've got a dozen or so sotapannas at your beck and calling? Cool.
is that the requirement to moderate around here?
binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am
I predict that such a section would be either:
a) empty, no postings;
b) a gladiator arena, where posters go for the jugular and then claim innocence;
c) a hugbox.
I do not agree and this is offensive but obviously you can make predictions if you want.

Another big issue is people who are legitimatelly mentally ill, i do not feel comfortable having to deal with what is clearly insane by worldly standards.
I want to discuss the theory with serious smart people for whom such teaching was meant, if this forum is not the place for this it is fine just say it.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:40 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am
You've got a dozen or so sotapannas at your beck and calling? Cool.
is that the requirement to moderate around here?
No, but to moderate according to the criteria specified in the OP, one would need to be at least a sotapanna.
I do not agree and this is offensive but obviously you can make predictions if you want.
Why offensive? Can you explain?

Like I said, I just think that when people are more serious about practice, a structured discussion naturally emerges, no need to try to impose it externally or moderate it. No amount of moderation from others can make up for the prospective participant's lack of commitment to the Dhamma and lack of Dhammic skill.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
Another big issue is people who are legitimatelly mentally ill, i do not feel comfortable having to deal with what is clearly insane by worldly standards.
You don't have to deal with them. The slower ones naturally get left behind by the faster ones.

The problem isn't that there are too many people with mental health issues; the problem is that there aren't more of those without mental health issues.
I want to discuss the theory with serious smart people for whom such teaching was meant, if this forum is not the place for this it is fine just say it.
You're more than welcome to take the lead, set an example.

(But don't complain that going against the stream and taking the force of the blow is hard.)
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:47 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:40 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:11 am
You've got a dozen or so sotapannas at your beck and calling? Cool.
is that the requirement to moderate around here?
No, but to moderate according to the criteria specified in the OP, one would need to be at least a sotapanna.
I do not agree and this is offensive but obviously you can make predictions if you want.
Why offensive? Can you explain?

Like I said, I just think that when people are more serious about practice, a structured discussion naturally emerges, no need to try to impose it externally or moderate it. No amount of moderation from others can make up for the prospective participant's lack of commitment to the Dhamma and lack of Dhammic skill.
It is offensive because it implies that we are incapable, which i consider slander.

Secondly moderation will hardly be required a simple admonishment by the engaged party will be enough, reapeated offenders will simply be pointed out and can be deemed not worth talking to until they reform themselves in eyes of the people they talk to.

Third point i will make in regards to this is that disagreements can be settled by a vote or communal arbitration, ie me and you have a disagreement you give me a list of five people and i give you a list of five people, you pick three from my list i pick three from yours and let the good people decide. It they can not settle it, there are others ways to settle it a debate could be held or discussion raised in appropriate manner.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
Another big issue is people who are legitimatelly mentally ill, i do not feel
I want to discuss the theory with serious smart people for whom such teaching was meant, if this forum is not the place for this it is fine just say it.
You're more than welcome to take the lead, set an example.
I do discuss it and it has been fine, i have been talking to people here about 14 hours a day or so for a few weeks.

However it is not appropriate to let mentally ill people harrass and troll people, this is inappropriate highly and i assume would not be tolerated on most serious forums.

This is not a matter of "suck it up" and people do not actually have to deal with it and can go elsewhere for Dhamma, which most active posters have chosen to do as it seems to me. We are what 10-15 people posting? if half leaves it will be mods left pretty much... Comeon.

For me i am done on this forum for now, unless this is established i do not see much reason to keep posting. I have established what i wanted here for now. I will start training instead and probably just post mostly in the Contemplation Month and blog type posts and give refutation if i see it fit.

We are not monastifying the "lay community here" the population of this forum in not an accurate representation of the whole lay community. Obviously if out of half a billion buddhists 10-20 people choose to come here to post, 5 or so of which being moderators... it is clearly not working as it is.

I am suggesting a solution to all this, if don't want it. what am i to do. so be it. non self manifest:)
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 am

I am not even suggesting one of my own ideas for communal guidelines and discussion of the Dhamma, you are supposedly arguing against perfect knowledge and the highest authority :?

This is clearly a Lay Disciple in the dispensation of the Tathagata asking for a mere section of the forum to be dedicated to the discussion of The Tathagata's teachings in a manner prescribed by the Tathagata, asking for The Tathagatas direct instruction to be heeded merely.

Also look at the rules themselves, any reasonable person would be happy to follow. Which makes me question your motives as you do not seem stupid.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:18 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:47 am
It is offensive because it implies that we are incapable, which i consider slander.
Oh, okay.
Secondly moderation will hardly be required a simple admonishment by the engaged party will be enough, reapeated offenders will simply be pointed out and can be deemed not worth talking to until they reform themselves in eyes of the people they talk to.
As can already be done now.
Third point i will make in regards to this is that disagreements can be settled by a vote or communal arbitration, ie me and you have a disagreement you give me a list of five people and i give you a list of five people, you pick three from my list i pick three from yours and let the good people decide. It they can not settle it, there are others ways to settle it a debate could be held or discussion raised in appropriate manner.
I think this is strange.
If you want to have discussions (debates?!) that carry as much weight as you seem to want them to carry, then a Buddhist council is the proper venue for that, but certainly not an online forum.
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:58 am
However it is not appropriate to let mentally ill people harrass and troll people, this is inappropriate highly and i assume would not be tolerated on most serious forums.

This is not a matter of "suck it up" and people do not actually have to deal with it
It's not a matter of "suck it up". The fast naturally leave behind the slow. It just happens naturally, there's no need to interfere.
Have you never seen this happen?
and can go elsewhere for Dhamma, which most active posters have chosen to do as it seems to me. We are what 10-15 people posting? if half leaves it will be mods left pretty much... Comeon.
We are not monastifying the "lay community here" the population of this forum in not an accurate representation of the whole lay community. Obviously if out of half a billion buddhists 10-20 people choose to come here to post, 5 or so of which being moderators... it is clearly not working as it is.
Since when are online forums representative of Buddhism, or defined as an important conduit for Dhamma practice?

What is not working? This is a Budhist discussion forum on the internet. Not a Buddhist council, not a Buddhist panel discussion, not a meeting of Buddhist experts writing a Buddhist encyclopedia.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:22 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:18 pm
if you want to prove that it is bad idea go ahead i do not have to prove anything or explain anything to you, i go on Tathagatas authority on this. If it is not accepted i don't care frankly, won't lose any sleep over 10 people arguing with eachother in a dark corner of the internet, few of them obviously trolling.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:29 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 am
I am not even suggesting one of my own ideas for communal guidelines and discussion of the Dhamma, you are supposedly arguing against perfect knowledge and the highest authority :?

This is clearly a Lay Disciple in the dispensation of the Tathagata asking for a mere section of the forum to be dedicated to the discussion of The Tathagata's teachings in a manner prescribed by the Tathagata, asking for The Tathagatas direct instruction to be heeded merely.

Also look at the rules themselves, any reasonable person would be happy to follow. Which makes me question your motives as you do not seem stupid.
Thank you that I don't seem stupid ...

I think you're at the wrong forum. What you're suggesting would apply at a forum meant only for people who are sure about Buddhism and their commitment to it. Not at a forum like this, where varying degress of commitment to Buddhism are acceptable, and where not even being a Buddhist is acceptable.

As for asking for merely a section of the forum -- go ahead. Like I've been saying:
binocular wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:56 pm
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:39 am
overloaded with skeptics and openly contradicting buddha's dhamma and also off-topic content maybe
I already told you: Limit the forum membership to those who have attained at least sotapanna. Ditch everyone else.
Sounds good?

:alien:
In the case of merely a section of the forum: go ahead, limit it to the highly advanced. I, for one, would be interested in seeing what happens.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Forum Section moderated according to Sutta

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:32 pm

it is good for beginners too, i think you would be surprised.

i just really kind of have a problem with my level of commitment being "too high" wtf is that... It is like people are surprised someone would be convinced of what they themselves doubt and go on to impose their doubt on enviroment unrightfully by non-cooperation.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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