Diversity among mods

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:53 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:20 am
Quite simply its not Freedom of Speech because you don't have the right to break the TOS, you don't have the freedom to call someone an axx, etc.. Its also no Freedom of Speech when posters of one political persuasion are censored more than posters of another political persuasion, that used to happen here IMHO, but as I said seems to be happening less, though I still wonder what happened to LN, it seemed to me he was going out of his way to obey the TOS and yet he is no longer with us, several equally way out right wing posters remain, though. At least the moderator got rid of the poster advocating pedophilia; lowering the age of consent law to 13?????
I'll ask you the same question that I asked Mr. Man. Do you want to break the ToS or to call someone an axx, etc? If not, then the ToS are no restriction on your liberty.

I've no idea what happened to LN. I don't think he has posted here since I became a moderator. But many people stop posting for many different reasons. Maybe LN didn't like it here? The list of members is many times bigger than the number of people who post here regularly.

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:00 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:48 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:34 am
Hi Sam Vara
Well I actually was interested in communicating with No_Mind
And I was interested in communicating with you. Presumably if you hadn't wanted anyone else to get involved, you could have PM'd No_Mind. That's how forums work.
Board warnings are issued/ posts are removed / threads locked / hidden etc when moderators consider a post (or the conversation) go against the terms of service. This is a moderated forum.
Do you want to go against the terms of service? Nobody's freedom of speech is prevented if there are proscriptions on what they don't want to do. If one of the ToS is that one is not allowed to use the term "sequipedalian" in pink font, it would be no restriction on my freedom of speech because that is not something that I want to do.

So how is your freedon of speech affected by the ToS?
Hi Sam Vara
Yes anyone is free to respond but I was interested in communicating with No_Mind within the context of this furum/discussion.

If I want to go against the "terms of service" is neither here nor there. The point is the "terms of service" restrict speech. This really is undeniable, in my opinion, and that means speech is no longer free if it is restricted.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:08 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:00 pm
Hi Sam Vara
Yes anyone is free to respond but I was interested in communicating with No_Mind within the context of this furum/discussion.

If I want to go against the "terms of service" is neither here nor there. The point is the "terms of service" restrict speech. This really is undeniable, in my opinion, and that means speech is no longer free if it is restricted.
Yes, and mutatis mutandis, I am interested in communicating with you!

Do the ToS restrict your speech (i.e. are there things which you want to say but which they prevent you from saying)?

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No_Mind
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by No_Mind » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:14 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am
Hi No_Mind

"Freedom of speech" has become heavily politicized, in my opinion. "full freedom of speech" would not be great for a forum as there needs to be some kind of order (moderation) to keep the conversations fruitful. Even if that is just the collation of ideas into topics.

And yes I have been suspended and received board warnings for expressing my views. Ironically the last board warning was for a post in the "Contemporary threats to free speech" thread. :smile:
I cannot speak about something I do not know. But I find that Paul does a good job of protecting the flock from being too exposed to the liberal agenda for which I thank him (I am strictly centrist in my views .. an everyman if there ever was one).

Religion is conservative by its very nature. Too much freedom hampers spiritual progress.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:21 pm

Evidently the way I want to express my freedom of speech often violates the TOS, at least in some moderators view, over and over again, I'm rather surprised I've been able to say what I've said here without being moderated.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:08 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:00 pm
Hi Sam Vara
Yes anyone is free to respond but I was interested in communicating with No_Mind within the context of this furum/discussion.

If I want to go against the "terms of service" is neither here nor there. The point is the "terms of service" restrict speech. This really is undeniable, in my opinion, and that means speech is no longer free if it is restricted.
Yes, and mutatis mutandis, I am interested in communicating with you!

Do the ToS restrict your speech (i.e. are there things which you want to say but which they prevent you from saying)?
Hi Sam Vara
That is irrelevant. They do restrict speech.

This is my original comment

"No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated."

It is straightforward and factual. If you don't see that well you don't see it. There really isn't anything more to say.

This is turning into another nonsensical conversation with a moderator, in my opinion. I do not enjoy them.

:smile:

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:24 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:14 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am
Hi No_Mind

"Freedom of speech" has become heavily politicized, in my opinion. "full freedom of speech" would not be great for a forum as there needs to be some kind of order (moderation) to keep the conversations fruitful. Even if that is just the collation of ideas into topics.

And yes I have been suspended and received board warnings for expressing my views. Ironically the last board warning was for a post in the "Contemporary threats to free speech" thread. :smile:
I cannot speak about something I do not know. But I find that Paul does a good job of protecting the flock from being too exposed to the liberal agenda for which I thank him (I am strictly centrist in my views .. an everyman if there ever was one).

Religion is conservative by its very nature. Too much freedom hampers spiritual progress.

:namaste:
Thanks No_Mind

:smile:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:33 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm
Hi Sam Vara
That is irrelevant. They do restrict speech.
But not your speech, it seems. Or, if they do, you are unwilling to tell us how.

They only restrict the speech of those who want to break the terms of service. Do you wish to be an advocate of such people? There is certainly no rule against that...

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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm

A bit of background, I have a problem mostly with making personal attacks ( not only on this forum), for that I was temporarily banned and under the old mod team permanently banned(for insulting meat eaters). Thanks to an appeal to DNS, I was probationaly reinstated after the moderator that banned me was relieved of duty. However as terms of my probation, all my messages have to go through the moderation team before they are seen on the forum, lets just say this gives the moderators more opportunity to censor my comments than they might the average poster, maybe I've reformed my naughty ways, or maybe I've just learned what sets off the moderators, but it seems like lately almost all of my posts are going through, my hats off to Retro for allowing as much freedom of speech as he does, as I'm sure my views on many things are the antithesis of what he believes, still wondering what an ad hominem post actually is, as many times as I've been accused of it, its still a nothing term to me. Same for straw men, don't care to know what that is.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:03 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:33 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm
Hi Sam Vara
That is irrelevant. They do restrict speech.
But not your speech, it seems. Or, if they do, you are unwilling to tell us how.

They only restrict the speech of those who want to break the terms of service. Do you wish to be an advocate of such people? There is certainly no rule against that...
Sam Vara
The terms of service restrict the speech of everyone who participates in this forum. If they want to break the restrictions or not is not relevant to the original point.

"No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated."

I have answered many questions for you Sam Vara. Enough now :smile:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:26 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:03 pm
Sam Vara
The terms of service restrict the speech of everyone who participates in this forum. If they want to break the restrictions or not is not relevant to the original point.

"No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated."

I have answered many questions for you Sam Vara. Enough now :smile:
Whether people want to break the restrictions is indeed relevant, because if they don't, then there is no infringement on their right to speak freely. That's an important distinction between two conceptions of freedom of speech, and also relevant in the sense that you yourself have been invited to say whether you have a desire to break those restrictions, and have refrained from doing so. I can therefore infer that although the ToS proscribe certain types of speech, this is not something that you personally are restricted by. Or that if you do feel restricted, you are unwilling to say how.

So although it might be an issue for some people, it's not for you.

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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm

Mr Man made a very good point, almost no public forum allows true Freedom of Speech, "Freedom of Speech" within the confines of TOS is not Free speech, but moderated speech, I don't see how this is not quite clear.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm
Mr Man made a very good point, almost no public forum allows true Freedom of Speech, "Freedom of Speech" within the confines of TOS is not Free speech, but moderated speech, I don't see how this is not quite clear.
Whose speech is not free?

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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:55 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:57 am
Greetings No_Mind,
No_Mind wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:47 am
While I welcome that Sam is the new moderator .. maybe DW needs some diversity in its 9th year .. an Asian mod (Sarath possibly .. he almost lives here .. might as well mod while he is here) .. maybe a female mod (unless there already is one .. I do not think so ..) .. a black mod maybe (unless there already is one)

Just a suggestion.
We select people because we assess that they are the best person available who is willing and able to do the role.

This includes multiple factors, including but not limited to:

- Temperament and equanimity
- Consistency in participation over time
- Comprehension of the English language
- Knowledge of the Buddha's teaching
- Comprehension of different interpretations of the Buddha's teaching
- Tolerance of diverse viewpoints

The identity of that person in terms of age, gender, sexuality, nationality, skin colour etc. is entirely irrelevant to our decision making, as such factors neither enhance nor diminish their capability to moderate a Buddhist forum.

To answer your question though, there is one female ex-moderator who is welcome back to the role, whenever she wishes to become involved in such a capacity again.... and, I'd like to point out, that that's because she's a great moderator, and it has nothing to do with her gender.

To me, [current year] isn't a compelling argument to ignore and set aside whomever we assess to be the best available candidate, in favour of tokenism.

Love live meritocracy.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Paul. :)
This is a completely bogus argument against diversity, the reason diversity is so important is that each race and gender has certain positive and otherwise attributes that they can bring to the table that a member of another race or gender might not even be aware of, its not about equality, its about welcoming diverse and differing viewpoints into the equation. The Idea of an Asian religions forum being run by all white Western men does not really bring the full beauty, viewpoints, and traditional history of what is almost exclusively in terms of numbers an Asian tradition. The idea that advanced English proficiency is a prerequisite for moderators, would eliminate 99% of the Buddhist monks and nuns in the world, including the Venerable Ajahn Chah if he were still with us.
Last edited by lyndon taylor on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:57 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:43 pm
Mr Man made a very good point, almost no public forum allows true Freedom of Speech, "Freedom of Speech" within the confines of TOS is not Free speech, but moderated speech, I don't see how this is not quite clear.
Whose speech is not free?
Everyone's on the forum. Anytime you take away someone's right to call an axx an axx, you have given up true freedom and entered the realm of moderated forums.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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