Diversity among mods

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Meezer77
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Meezer77 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:04 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:23 pm
Meezer77 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:01 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:45 am


This is a scary trigger word for many people: diversity.
How so?
Some time I will innocently work the word "diversity" into a post in a specific way, just the word itself, completely innocuously and apolitically, then I will PM you. We will see how many people are triggered by something utterly non-triggering.

Being triggered transcends political divisions. I can think of various talking heads on stations like Fox News who are constantly triggered about something. I wouldn't say its just a liberal thing, though young ideological liberal university students are most famous for becoming "triggered" for certain, and afaik invented the term's current usage.

"Triggered" used to refer to triggered flashbacks of extreme trauma, like an assault or a rape.

Now it seems to refer to "being upset".
Yes, I guess this thread has been a trigger. Not just the word though, but the context in which it has been used has stirred up some emotions.

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No_Mind
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by No_Mind » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:11 pm

- No one is discriminated against by staff on account of their political views. Once upon a time this would have happened (as per Sarath & No_Mind's experiences), but it doesn't happen now. The present team are very much against partiality in their acts of moderation, and for this reason, the Terms of Service state that...


Metta,
Paul. :)
Absolutely correct :thumbsup:

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

SarathW
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:56 am

we expect you to be personally responsible for your own emotions and responses.
This is a good point Retro however unaccepted post may be bring to the attention of the poster not as a warning buy as a reminder so they can get back to the track again.
Some times we all have the tendency to carry away with our feelings so we end up with falling on our own swards.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:02 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:56 am
we expect you to be personally responsible for your own emotions and responses.
This is a good point Retro however unaccepted post may be bring to the attention of the poster not as a warning buy as a reminder so they can get back to the track again.
Some times we all have the tendency to carry away with our feelings so we end up with falling on our own swards.
I was moderated on SuttaCentral once for calling the government of China Daesh due to their shared proclivities for bulldozing and dynamiting valuable cultural and archeological information pertinent to our shared human heritage (in relation to the renewed demolition of Larung Gar).

It was a pretty dirty comparison, I get why they moderated it.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

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retrofuturist
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:04 am

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:56 am
Some times we all have the tendency to carry away with our feelings so we end up with falling on our own swards.
Hopefully less so if we practice the brahma-vihara of equanimity, and aspects of the path such as Right Effort, and Right Mindfulness.

That said, we don't expect anyone to be perfect... just for them to do their best to operate within the Terms Of Service. We have a much greater tolerance for one off lapses by well-meaning members, than we do for the systematic, brazen and wilful disregard for the Terms Of Service demonstrated by a (thankfully very) small minority.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:22 am

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.
Hi No_Mind
No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:38 am

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:22 am
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.
Hi No_Mind
No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated.
Maybe No_Mind means that he is able to express anything that he wishes to express on DW. This is a reasonable and workable form of negative liberty in such circumstances, as it would be difficult to consider how it might be improved upon by changing the platform, ToS, moderators, and so on.

Is there something that you would wish to express here on DW that you feel unable to express, Mr Man? If so, then you might well need to allude to it rather than state it in responding to this question. Or are you just making a general philosophical point about the impossibility of absolutely free speech under any circumstances?

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:38 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:22 am
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.
Hi No_Mind
No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated.
Maybe No_Mind means that he is able to express anything that he wishes to express on DW. This is a reasonable and workable form of negative liberty in such circumstances, as it would be difficult to consider how it might be improved upon by changing the platform, ToS, moderators, and so on.

Is there something that you would wish to express here on DW that you feel unable to express, Mr Man? If so, then you might well need to allude to it rather than state it in responding to this question. Or are you just making a general philosophical point about the impossibility of absolutely free speech under any circumstances?
Hi Sam Vara

I'm sure No_Mind is perfectly capable of communicating/elaborating on what he means.

What I said above is a statement of fact that is all.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 am

My comments get censored quite often, though less lately than a couple months ago, seems the moderation team is trying to actually stick to more freedom of speech, I used to have comments censored for what I thought were purely political reasons, less so now.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 am

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 am

Hi Sam Vara

I'm sure No_Mind is perfectly capable of communicating/elaborating on what he means.

What I said above is a statement of fact that is all.
I'm sure he is, too. I'm not so interested in what No_Mind means, as in what you mean. In what sense is there not full freedom of speech here on DW? You are saying that there is not full freedom of speech because of moderation, so could you explain how moderation affects what you (or indeed anyone else) wishes to say?

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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:20 am

Quite simply its not Freedom of Speech because you don't have the right to break the TOS, you don't have the freedom to call someone an axx, etc.. Its also no Freedom of Speech when posters of one political persuasion are censored more than posters of another political persuasion, that used to happen here IMHO, but as I said seems to be happening less, though I still wonder what happened to LN, it seemed to me he was going out of his way to obey the TOS and yet he is no longer with us, several equally way out right wing posters remain, though. At least the moderator got rid of the poster advocating pedophilia; lowering the age of consent law to 13?????
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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No_Mind
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by No_Mind » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:22 am

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:22 am
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.
Hi No_Mind
No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated.
Depends on what you mean by freedom of speech. You cannot crack crude, obscene jokes and tell lewd stories before a female colleague. That maybe construed as sexual harassment. Does freedom of speech mean, that while travelling on a bus, you can tell a friend in a loud voice how you exactly and your wife made love the night before?

No freedom is absolute.

If your views are harmonious no reason why they will be moderated. And for that matter any forum is moderated. You have not been suspended for expressing your views. If that happened it would have been cause for concern.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:34 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:01 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:54 am

Hi Sam Vara

I'm sure No_Mind is perfectly capable of communicating/elaborating on what he means.

What I said above is a statement of fact that is all.
I'm sure he is, too. I'm not so interested in what No_Mind means, as in what you mean. In what sense is there not full freedom of speech here on DW? You are saying that there is not full freedom of speech because of moderation, so could you explain how moderation affects what you (or indeed anyone else) wishes to say?
Hi Sam Vara
Well I actually was interested in communicating with No_Mind

Yes.
2. Speech

Any subject matter that may be off-topic or is intended to cause disruption or harm may be removed without notice. This includes, but is not restricted to:

a. Nasty speech
b. Badmouthing Buddhist discussion forums
c. Language or subject matter inappropriate to minors
d. Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions - including psychoanalyzing other members, and predictions or threats of kammic retribution
e. Disruptive meta-discussion (i.e. discussion about discussion, including in-topic complaints about the existence of discussions that don't suit your preferences)
f. Personal attacks, including the vilification of individuals based on any attributes - whether related to their personal attributes (e.g. gender, nationality, sexuality, race, age) or their approach to the Dhamma (e.g. their practices, level of experience, or chosen tradition)
g. Attacks against the Buddha, Dhamma, or Sangha, which violate the Intention of this forum (See Section 1. Intention for details)
h. Goodbye Cruel Forum posts

This is an English language forum, therefore posts must be in English or Pāli (i.e. the language of the Tipitaka and the ancient commentaries). As the majority of members are not fluent in Pāli, please consider the value of providing English translations for Pāli text where practicable. The English language requirement does not apply to general greetings and salutations, nor to the Non-English Resources section.
g. Attacks against the Buddha, Dhamma, or Sangha, which violate the Intention of this forum (See Section 1. Intention for details)
h. Goodbye Cruel Forum posts
Board warnings are issued/ posts are removed / threads locked / hidden etc when moderators consider a post (or the conversation) go against the terms of service. This is a moderated forum.

But this is all obvious so I really don't know what you are trying to get at Sam?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:48 am

Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:34 am
Hi Sam Vara
Well I actually was interested in communicating with No_Mind
And I was interested in communicating with you. Presumably if you hadn't wanted anyone else to get involved, you could have PM'd No_Mind. That's how forums work.
Board warnings are issued/ posts are removed / threads locked / hidden etc when moderators consider a post (or the conversation) go against the terms of service. This is a moderated forum.
Do you want to go against the terms of service? Nobody's freedom of speech is prevented if there are proscriptions on what they don't want to do. If one of the ToS is that one is not allowed to use the term "sequipedalian" in pink font, it would be no restriction on my freedom of speech because that is not something that I want to do.

So how is your freedon of speech affected by the ToS?

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Mr Man
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Re: Diversity among mods

Post by Mr Man » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:22 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:22 am
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:19 am

There is full freedom of speech in DW now which was lacking when I was banned.
Hi No_Mind
No there is not full freedom of speech in DW now. The forum is moderated.
Depends on what you mean by freedom of speech. You cannot crack crude, obscene jokes and tell lewd stories before a female colleague. That maybe construed as sexual harassment. Does freedom of speech mean, that while travelling on a bus, you can tell a friend in a loud voice how you exactly and your wife made love the night before?

No freedom is absolute.

If your views are harmonious no reason why they will be moderated. And for that matter any forum is moderated. You have not been suspended for expressing your views. If that happened it would have been cause for concern.

:namaste:

Hi No_Mind

"Freedom of speech" has become heavily politicized, in my opinion. "full freedom of speech" would not be great for a forum as there needs to be some kind of order (moderation) to keep the conversations fruitful. Even if that is just the collation of ideas into topics.

And yes I have been suspended and received board warnings for expressing my views. Ironically the last board warning was for a post in the "Contemporary threats to free speech" thread. :smile:

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