Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

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binocular
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:01 pm

Zom wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:48 pm
sure this isnt an early buddhist forum it's a theravada forum but even for being a theravada forum it is sloppy
This is because theravada itself is sloppy 8-)
? How so??
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Greetings,

I assume by "sloppy", something akin to "sprawling" is meant, and I think sprawling is an apt description of the literature and culture of Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, and (unsurprisingly) how it is discussed.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:38 am

theravāda in one sense is sloppy because the commentaries are conflated with the suttas. and some of them are clearly not reliable
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Zom » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 am

I assume by "sloppy", something akin to "sprawling" is meant, and I think sprawling is an apt description of the literature and culture of Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, and (unsurprisingly) how it is discussed.

Image

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robertk
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by robertk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:17 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:38 am
theravāda in one sense is sloppy because the commentaries are conflated with the suttas. and some of them are clearly not reliable
And which ones are these?

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:41 am

most of what is said by ven buddhaghosa
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by robertk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:52 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:41 am
most of what is said by ven buddhaghosa
And how is what most of what Buddhaghosa said "clearly unreliable"?

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:56 am

www.buddhistische-gesellschaft-berlin.d ... dhanew.pdf There are even cases where Buddhaghosa interprets the Tipitaka to mean the exact opposite of what it actually says; see for example, Concept and Reality, 1971
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:57 am

more
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

binocular
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:48 am

Zom wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 am
I assume by "sloppy", something akin to "sprawling" is meant, and I think sprawling is an apt description of the literature and culture of Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, and (unsurprisingly) how it is discussed.
Image
According to that criteria, which schools of Buddhism are not sloppy?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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robertk
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by robertk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:51 am

A contemporary monk in Sri Lanka thinks that he knows more than the ancients. His ideas carry no weight with me I am afraid.

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Zom
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Zom » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:02 am

According to that criteria, which schools of Buddhism are not sloppy?
None, unfortunately .)

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:45 am

Zom wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:02 am
According to that criteria, which schools of Buddhism are not sloppy?
None, unfortunately .)
What is the opposite of sloppy (presuming you would want the opposite of sloppy), and what religions are examples of that?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:49 am

robertk: this is why i say commentaries held as authoritative even when wrong. it's clearly contrary to the suttas to define nāma as the four immaterial aggregates. consciousness has no place in that definition, so do you believe a 5th century monk knows better than the buddha? rather than lazy ad hominem, why not put forth a valid argument, being a forum moderator? :computerproblem:
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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robertk
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by robertk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:13 pm

It is a pity that monk didn't consult the Buddhist Dictionary by Nyanatiloka.

He would have learned that in only certain contexts nama excludes vinnana.

https://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic_idx.htm
nāma: (lit. 'name'): 'mind', mentality. This term is generally used as a collective name for the 4 mental groups (arūpino khandha), viz. feeling (vedanā), perception (saññā), mental formations (saṅkhāra) and consciousness (viññāṇa). Within the 4th link (nāma-rūpa) in the formula of the paṭiccasamuppāda (q.v.), however, it applies only to kamma-resultant (vipāka) feeling and perception and a few kamma-resultant mental functions inseparable from any consciousness. As it is said (M. 9; D. 15; S. XII, 2): "Feeling (vedanā), perception (saññā), volition (cetanā), impression (phassa), mental advertence (manasikāra): this, o brother, is called mind (nāma)
this is of course understood by the ancients and well explained.

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