Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am
Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:43 pm
I think it is a false equivalence comparing antagonism to an individual and antagonism to a religion/large grouping
I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am
Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:43 pm
I think it is a false equivalence comparing antagonism to an individual and antagonism to a religion/large grouping
I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:36 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am


I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
This is all a bit off topic

But for example the hatred that would lead someone to kill their parents is worse than hatred for the x-factor. The consequences would be worse.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:53 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:36 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm


Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
This is all a bit off topic

But for example the hatred that would lead someone to kill their parents is worse than hatred for the x-factor. The consequences would be worse.

What if you hated the X-Factor so much that you were driven to kill contestants? It seems to me that it is the intensity or severity of the motivating factor (in this case, hatred) which is most important.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:04 am
... it's just that we had one particular member who took it upon himself to play Dhamma Cop and incessantly hound and badger anyone who said anything contrary to his understandings of what was important, what should be respected and what should be protected.
I understand you are referring to me.

If you actually read the words in the OPs which you found so offensive, you would have realized I was not playing "Dhamma cop."

How about a little more mutual respect and friendliness? These are your TOS, not mine.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am

Greetings L.N.,
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:04 am
... it's just that we had one particular member who took it upon himself to play Dhamma Cop and incessantly hound and badger anyone who said anything contrary to his understandings of what was important, what should be respected and what should be protected.
I understand you are referring to me.
You understand incorrectly.
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am
How about a little more mutual respect and friendliness?
How about a little less assuming the worst, and being repeatedly wrong as a result of your faithlessness?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
What are you talking about?
DNS wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 pm
It is just that the argumentative ones stick out and give the appearance that the forum is being dominated by them, when actually they are rare and cordiality and helpful posts are really quite common.
One of the most "argumentative" participants here is your administrator retrofuturists. While I repeatedly have said I appreciate his and your hard work in providing this forum, we can do without the lack of friendliness and lack of mutual respect which your administrator very commonly puts on display, including in this topic about "Let's make this form our Buddhist!"
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:29 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:10 am
If you need me to say that explicitly to you personally to help with that healing process, please let me know. If you feel in any way wronged by me, please get in touch.
Right. My experience with doing this with you is that the result is you make excuses for yourself and you respond with recriminations.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 am

Greetings L.N.,
retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am
What are you talking about?
Your inclination to assume the worst and be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement - and being conclusively in error as a result, whenever you do so.

I hope that has clarified the meaning in detail of what was said in brief.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:22 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 am
Greetings L.N.,
retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am
What are you talking about?
Your inclination to assume the worst and be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement - and being conclusively in error as a result, whenever you do so.

I hope that has clarified the meaning in detail of what was said in brief.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Look in the mirror, friend.

First, this is not "my inclination," as you put it. You cannot read my mind. You do not know how my mind is inclined. If I tell you my mind is inclined toward Dhamma, you do not believe me.

Second, this Topic should not be about any individual, and your personalized comments about me are inappropriate. You have stated your position that you do not believe you have to take personal responsibility for your words, so I understand that you, an administrator of this forum, will feel very much free to continue making off-topic personalized comments about others (not just me).

Third, your invasion of the following Topic demonstrates what appears to be (note that I said "appears to be" as I cannot read your mind) your own inclination to "assume the worst" and "be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement." viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30610. It seems evident to me that you have responded to the "Right Speech" topics out of your right-wing political agenda, because you erroneously have perceived in the "Right Speech" topics a liberal effort to control other's speech, or to engage in censorship. You personally ruined these Topics by invading them with your highly inappropriate, inflammatory, off-topic comments about me. The Topics were supposed to be friendly, mutually respectful topics about Sila.

The topic of this Topic is "Let's make this form more Buddhist!" It would be more Buddhist if you and other member(s) of the Team would desist from politicizing discussions here, and would desist from making off-topic personalized comments and engaging in gratuitous recriminations.

You personally have made this forum a less Buddhist place.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Nicolas
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Nicolas » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Why don't you two stop arguing? Dropping the conversation would make the forum more Buddhist. Just let it go.

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:48 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:39 pm
Why don't you two stop arguing? Dropping the conversation would make the forum more Buddhist. Just let it go.
Yes, many people have tried to shut me up. Retrofuturist is the one in control, as he is the administrator.

I came here to discuss Dhamma. Retrofuturist has hindered this opportunity.

You can call it "arguing." I call it "communicating."
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Nicolas
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Nicolas » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:50 pm

It's not about shutting anyone up. It's about realizing that, sometimes, it's not worth responding to certain things.
Kinti Sutta (MN 103) wrote: Then it may occur to you, bhikkhus: ‘I shall be troubled and the other person will be hurt; for the other person is given to anger and resentment, and he is firmly attached to his view and he relinquishes with difficulty; and I cannot make that person emerge from the unwholesome and establish him in the wholesome.’ One should not underrate equanimity towards such a person.
P.S. (Friday, December 22, 2017) I'm leaving the following quotes here for future reference:
Dhammapada, verses 3-4 wrote: "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
Dhammapada, verse 81 wrote: Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.
Dhammapada, verse 228 wrote: There never was, there never will be, nor is there now, a person who is wholly blamed or wholly praised.
Akkosa Sutta (SN 7.2) wrote: In the same way, brahman, that with which you have insulted me, who is not insulting; that with which you have taunted me, who is not taunting; that with which you have berated me, who is not berating: that I don’t accept from you. It’s all yours, brahman. It’s all yours.

Whoever returns insult to one who is insulting, returns taunts to one who is taunting, returns a berating to one who is berating, is said to be eating together, sharing company, with that person. But I am neither eating together nor sharing your company, brahman. It’s all yours. It’s all yours.
Madhupiṇḍika Sutta (MN 18) wrote: The sort of doctrine, friend, where one does not keep quarreling with anyone in the cosmos [...]. Such is my doctrine; such is what I proclaim.
Cūḷabyūha Sutta (Snp 4.12) wrote:Convinced of their own theories,
Comparing others to oneself,
They get into more disputes with the world.
But by leaving behind all theories,
They don’t have any problems with the world.
Duṭṭhaṭṭhaka Sutta (Snp 4.3) wrote: There are some who dispute
corrupted at heart,
and those who dispute
their hearts set on truth,
but a sage doesn’t enter
a dispute that’s arisen,
which is why he has no rigidity
anywhere at all.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:04 pm

yeah, what's up with all the skeptics on here. sometimes it feels like on even basic would-be points of agreement with other buddhists i'm being met with dissent. it's as if the whole of it is being re-invented (as the buddha predicted)
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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dylanj
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by dylanj » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:08 pm

There's too many people who openly disagree with &/or contradict the Buddha's Dhamma on here. Materialists, secularists, reformists, guruists. There should be more moderation in this regard.

I think such views should be completely banned from the main subforums. They can stay in "Discovering Theravada". "Modern Interpretations", "News, Current Events & Politics" should be deleted.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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