Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am
Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:43 pm
I think it is a false equivalence comparing antagonism to an individual and antagonism to a religion/large grouping
I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am
Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:43 pm
I think it is a false equivalence comparing antagonism to an individual and antagonism to a religion/large grouping
I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:36 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:19 am


I understand that you are talking about the proportion of incidents, but from a practical perspective, this is incorrect. Hatred of a person, and hatred of a category (of people, cars, w/e), both excite the same emotions and mental states, cause the same neurochemical cascades in the brain, and the same physiological and hormonal responses - raising adrenaline, noradrenaline, increased heart rate, etc etc. In fact, hatred of anything causes these changes. Which is why it is hatred per se which is advised against by the Buddha. It's not 'ok' to hate some people or categories, whether it be Trump or 'Muslims', because they don't accord with our societally conditioned morality.
Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
This is all a bit off topic

But for example the hatred that would lead someone to kill their parents is worse than hatred for the x-factor. The consequences would be worse.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:53 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:36 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:26 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:03 pm


Hi Pseudobabble
Yes hatred is not positive. But not all hatred is equal. Some hatred is more damaging.

I don't believe I ever said or implied that it is "'ok' to hate some people or categories"

Could you tell me which hatred is more damaging than which other, and why?
This is all a bit off topic

But for example the hatred that would lead someone to kill their parents is worse than hatred for the x-factor. The consequences would be worse.

What if you hated the X-Factor so much that you were driven to kill contestants? It seems to me that it is the intensity or severity of the motivating factor (in this case, hatred) which is most important.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:04 am
... it's just that we had one particular member who took it upon himself to play Dhamma Cop and incessantly hound and badger anyone who said anything contrary to his understandings of what was important, what should be respected and what should be protected.
I understand you are referring to me.

If you actually read the words in the OPs which you found so offensive, you would have realized I was not playing "Dhamma cop."

How about a little more mutual respect and friendliness? These are your TOS, not mine.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am

Greetings L.N.,
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:04 am
... it's just that we had one particular member who took it upon himself to play Dhamma Cop and incessantly hound and badger anyone who said anything contrary to his understandings of what was important, what should be respected and what should be protected.
I understand you are referring to me.
You understand incorrectly.
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:20 am
How about a little more mutual respect and friendliness?
How about a little less assuming the worst, and being repeatedly wrong as a result of your faithlessness?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
What are you talking about?
DNS wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 pm
It is just that the argumentative ones stick out and give the appearance that the forum is being dominated by them, when actually they are rare and cordiality and helpful posts are really quite common.
One of the most "argumentative" participants here is your administrator retrofuturists. While I repeatedly have said I appreciate his and your hard work in providing this forum, we can do without the lack of friendliness and lack of mutual respect which your administrator very commonly puts on display, including in this topic about "Let's make this form our Buddhist!"
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:29 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:10 am
If you need me to say that explicitly to you personally to help with that healing process, please let me know. If you feel in any way wronged by me, please get in touch.
Right. My experience with doing this with you is that the result is you make excuses for yourself and you respond with recriminations.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 am

Greetings L.N.,
retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am
What are you talking about?
Your inclination to assume the worst and be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement - and being conclusively in error as a result, whenever you do so.

I hope that has clarified the meaning in detail of what was said in brief.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:22 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:35 am
Greetings L.N.,
retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:24 am
... your faithlessness ...
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am
What are you talking about?
Your inclination to assume the worst and be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement - and being conclusively in error as a result, whenever you do so.

I hope that has clarified the meaning in detail of what was said in brief.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Look in the mirror, friend.

First, this is not "my inclination," as you put it. You cannot read my mind. You do not know how my mind is inclined. If I tell you my mind is inclined toward Dhamma, you do not believe me.

Second, this Topic should not be about any individual, and your personalized comments about me are inappropriate. You have stated your position that you do not believe you have to take personal responsibility for your words, so I understand that you, an administrator of this forum, will feel very much free to continue making off-topic personalized comments about others (not just me).

Third, your invasion of the following Topic demonstrates what appears to be (note that I said "appears to be" as I cannot read your mind) your own inclination to "assume the worst" and "be lacking in good faith, in terms of interpersonal engagement." viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30610. It seems evident to me that you have responded to the "Right Speech" topics out of your right-wing political agenda, because you erroneously have perceived in the "Right Speech" topics a liberal effort to control other's speech, or to engage in censorship. You personally ruined these Topics by invading them with your highly inappropriate, inflammatory, off-topic comments about me. The Topics were supposed to be friendly, mutually respectful topics about Sila.

The topic of this Topic is "Let's make this form more Buddhist!" It would be more Buddhist if you and other member(s) of the Team would desist from politicizing discussions here, and would desist from making off-topic personalized comments and engaging in gratuitous recriminations.

You personally have made this forum a less Buddhist place.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Nicolas
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Nicolas » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Why don't you two stop arguing? Dropping the conversation would make the forum more Buddhist. Just let it go.

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L.N.
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by L.N. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:48 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:39 pm
Why don't you two stop arguing? Dropping the conversation would make the forum more Buddhist. Just let it go.
Yes, many people have tried to shut me up. Retrofuturist is the one in control, as he is the administrator.

I came here to discuss Dhamma. Retrofuturist has hindered this opportunity.

You can call it "arguing." I call it "communicating."
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Nicolas
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Nicolas » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:50 pm

It's not about shutting anyone up. It's about realizing that, sometimes, it's not worth responding to certain things.
Kinti Sutta (MN 103) wrote: Then it may occur to you, bhikkhus: ‘I shall be troubled and the other person will be hurt; for the other person is given to anger and resentment, and he is firmly attached to his view and he relinquishes with difficulty; and I cannot make that person emerge from the unwholesome and establish him in the wholesome.’ One should not underrate equanimity towards such a person.
P.S. (Friday, December 22, 2017) I'm leaving the following quotes here for future reference:
Dhammapada, verses 3-4 wrote: "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
Dhammapada, verse 81 wrote: Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.
Dhammapada, verse 228 wrote: There never was, there never will be, nor is there now, a person who is wholly blamed or wholly praised.
Akkosa Sutta (SN 7.2) wrote: In the same way, brahman, that with which you have insulted me, who is not insulting; that with which you have taunted me, who is not taunting; that with which you have berated me, who is not berating: that I don’t accept from you. It’s all yours, brahman. It’s all yours.

Whoever returns insult to one who is insulting, returns taunts to one who is taunting, returns a berating to one who is berating, is said to be eating together, sharing company, with that person. But I am neither eating together nor sharing your company, brahman. It’s all yours. It’s all yours.
Madhupiṇḍika Sutta (MN 18) wrote: The sort of doctrine, friend, where one does not keep quarreling with anyone in the cosmos [...]. Such is my doctrine; such is what I proclaim.
Cūḷabyūha Sutta (Snp 4.12) wrote:Convinced of their own theories,
Comparing others to oneself,
They get into more disputes with the world.
But by leaving behind all theories,
They don’t have any problems with the world.
Duṭṭhaṭṭhaka Sutta (Snp 4.3) wrote: There are some who dispute
corrupted at heart,
and those who dispute
their hearts set on truth,
but a sage doesn’t enter
a dispute that’s arisen,
which is why he has no rigidity
anywhere at all.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:04 pm

yeah, what's up with all the skeptics on here. sometimes it feels like on even basic would-be points of agreement with other buddhists i'm being met with dissent. it's as if the whole of it is being re-invented (as the buddha predicted)
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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dylanj
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by dylanj » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:08 pm

There's too many people who openly disagree with &/or contradict the Buddha's Dhamma on here. Materialists, secularists, reformists, guruists. There should be more moderation in this regard.

I think such views should be completely banned from the main subforums. They can stay in "Discovering Theravada". "Modern Interpretations", "News, Current Events & Politics" should be deleted.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:40 pm

is it possible for me to disagree and agree with my friend maraṇa
back when i railed against the music thread and the lounge in general i was met with, 'this keeps these topics from spilling over into the rest of the forum'. dumb, but sensible
in my group (orthodox buddhism on facebook) i like to have dissenting views remain so they can be refuted! this is a great potential for merit. the problem is, even with the admins there is such a contrast to the orthodoxy that a person unexperienced with the dhamma would have no idea what is authentic or true
sure this isnt an early buddhist forum it's a theravada forum but even for being a theravada forum it is sloppy
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:45 pm

"And again, there will be in the course of the future monks undeveloped in body... virtue... mind... discernment. They — being undeveloped in body... virtue... mind... discernment — will not listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, profound, transcendent, connected with the Void — are being recited. They will not lend ear, will not set their hearts on knowing them, will not regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping and mastering. Thus from corrupt Dhamma comes corrupt discipline; from corrupt discipline, corrupt Dhamma.

AN 5.79 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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Zom
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Zom » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:48 pm

sure this isnt an early buddhist forum it's a theravada forum but even for being a theravada forum it is sloppy
This is because theravada itself is sloppy 8-)

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unveiledartist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by unveiledartist » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:57 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:09 am
Greetings.


Since recently, there has been so much meta-discussion about the workings of this forum, and many complaints about how it's not Buddhist (enough), I have a suggesttion:

All those who are interested in making this forum more Buddhist (and that should be everyone :tongue: ) can here in this thread make a proposal of what they will do to make this forum more Buddhist, and then carry out their plan.

Those who are not big on proposals and announcements can, of course, just do it. :bow:


:buddha1:
:anjali:

I'm still new here so take this as will. I've been to a couple of Buddhist sites and here are my suggestions etc on how this site may get running.


1.I will be blunt: less emphasis on rules and more emphasis on Dharma talk. I notice the reason other sites are fluid is that the rules are kinda hidden after terms have been read. Like advertisements, too many "visible" rules can scare people who want to know The Dhamma. I go to a writing site (not religious) and you have to review twenty pieces of work, get ten likes, and log in ten times before you are allowed to post. It shrinks the site for more everyday writers. To me, its a turn off right off the bat.

2. Site layout. I know this can't be changed but I know these type of boards makes information look more crowded.

3. Forum topics.

Maybe have "Buddhist basics" type forum without moderation permission. A lot of new Buddhist don't know the suttas and in the U.S. many Buddhist discussions are mixed between dharma understanding with a dhamma flare. The reason is that on the east coast Theravada temples and monasteries are in the mountains. I finally found one close but $200 or so by public transport because once you get to the bottom of the mountain who knows how far it is to breach and find the temple!

This makes conversation from beginners highly limited because they 1. Don't know suttas, 2. Don't know all the terms listed on the front page and 3. As a beginner they don't know what tradition goes where and where to talk because many come from christian backgrounds and they don't need to come to a Buddhist site that has the same shift on politics as their formal faith: more flexibility on new comers conversations.

4. General atmosphere. I think the site seems dead because the topics listed are not basic enough to warrant conversations with those not familiar with the terms. Less politics and more religion. Maybe have a small section for dharmics since not all us boddhissttvas-to-be want to discuss sutta and sutras (basics). I'm a sutta person. Cant know the sutras without good grounding on the suttas. That and the division makes the site more discriminative on who is a Buddhist and who is not.

My thoughts.

Ooh.. Like another site I go to, having a feedback poll thread specific for ideas for change from new and old members can let staff know what works and what does not. "Question the teacher" approach.
(Buddha said), "Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice."~AN 4.183. Dont speak ill of other people and traditions with whom teach The Dharma. Right speech is respect in agreements and disagreements alike.

:anjali:

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Circle5 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:09 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:50 am
but shied away from answering why he (or she) does not lecture his (or her) neighbours who drive a 24 valve 3.5 liter 214 cubic inch 450 horsepower SUV to kid's soccer game.
Only problem I find with that is being an SUV instead of a sedan.

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