Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
binocular
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:31 am

Caodemarte wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:00 am
if the forum could just return to exploring the Dhamma that would be good.
But what would that be -- "exploring the Dhamma" -- in an environment where there exist no teacher-student relationships?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Crazy cloud » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:13 am

If one doesn't have a teacher one make use of the 5 precepts and the 3 refuge

:)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:15 am

Greetings,
Crazy cloud wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:13 am
If one doesn't have a teacher one make use of the 5 precepts and the 3 refuge
Indeed...
DN 16 wrote:Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:39 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:25 am
Mr Man wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:21 am
I don't think what you are saying is true.
Well, that's just par for the course coming from you, isn't it Mr Man? I don't expect you'll pack away your long-held mistrust any time soon.

Do keep in mind however, that I see the reporting of posts, whereas you do not...

Rather than personal attacks perhaps you could instead just support you claim Paul?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:41 am

Greetings Mr Man,

What "personal attack"? Please stop being so dramatic.

I'm not giving you the moderator logs.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Mr Man
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Mr Man » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:47 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:41 am
Greetings Mr Man,

What "personal attack"? Please stop being so dramatic.

I'm not giving you the moderator logs.

Metta,
Paul. :)
So you cannot support your claim. Fair enough.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:51 am

Greetings Mr Man,

In turn you can't support your claim it's false... so what of it?

:shrug:

Does your portentous and pernickety interrogation make this forum more Buddhist?

Or is it just more inane weirdness?

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

Caodemarte
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:30 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:03 am
.....That said, what constitutes "attacks against other religions or sects" can be a very subjective matter. There's one religion in particular, where merely even mentioning its name is usually enough to commence an influx of complaints from some quarters about discrimination and phobias against it, regardless of whether or not the Terms of Service have been violated. As I've said elsewhere, I don't intend to reward weaponized outrage, nor tilt the scales in any particular direction, so what applies to one non-Buddhist religion, will apply to all.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I don’t think attacks are subjective or even subtle, but pretty obvious. In any case, if a posting or thread does not have a connection to Theravada, does not explain why it has a connection, or makes no attempt to be relevant to exploring the connections I suggest moving or deleting it.

binocular
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:49 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:13 am
If one doesn't have a teacher one make use of the 5 precepts and the 3 refuge
:(
How can one take refuge without a teacher?
-- Anyway, this is for another thread ...
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by binocular » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:33 pm

SDC wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:52 pm
I do not mind friendly competition, but that is not at all what I find on DW these days. In order for debates/discussions to be fundamentally friendly, participants must be united under a rather obvious common goal,
... and not just any goal, but admirable friendship.
While admirable friendship may not be the goal of the Path, I think it should be the goal of Buddhist social venues.
What we have on this forum are people with such fundamentally different modes of operation that disunity is just a matter of fact, and that lack of commonality is grounds enough for some to settle for blood when knowledge does not seem viable. Yes, "Dhamma of the Theravada" is the theme of this forum, but we have seen over the years that there are various ways to utilize the Dhamma. Out of respect for this diversity, we seem to have distanced ourselves from reaching a consensus on that issue. People can literally both be talking about the Dhamma but have zero grounds for agreement.
I think people generally consider eachother to be expendable. In online settings, to some extent, this is probably an effect of online interaction where one can just put someone on ignore, people get banned, and such. It can also be due to not having any common ground; or due to a type of pyramid-building mentality (where there is common ground and that is to build the pyramid, but the workers are just expendable, even if necessary entities, so who cares if some get killed in the process).

I think there's quite a bit of (unacknowledged) cynicism and despondency, and a trend seems to be to simply see them as the individual's fault and to trivialize or taboo the discussion of them.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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DNS
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by DNS » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 pm

From another thread on nibbana and cessation:
Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:11 am
I've nothing to add to the substance of this debate, but the above exchange might profitably be read by those who think there is something wrong with this site: too much politics, personalised stances, etc.
Two people engaging in a civil discussion about Buddhist metaphysics and ontology, with a brief and humble foray into Pali. The person who originated the thread says they benefitted from it. Everyone happy.
:heart:
And this one from another thread about alcohol:
bodom wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:32 am
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:47 am
I still thinking about Bodom's suggestions, and it's very clear to me that I must to go rehab. It's likely that his comments will save my life. I may lose my job, but I don't like it anyway. If I don't drink I have horrible withdrawal symptoms. I don't create more excuses. It's clear that I will die too, maybe next year, if I don't stop. I go to rehab.
So happy for you! A life you never thought possible, a freedom you never thought possible, waits for you on the other side. Please stay in touch to let us know your progress.
:namaste:
Both threads within the last 24 hours. There really is a lot of good done here on DW, thanks to the great members here. It is just that the argumentative ones stick out and give the appearance that the forum is being dominated by them, when actually they are rare and cordiality and helpful posts are really quite common.

:group:

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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:18 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:00 am
Greetings,
Will wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:03 am
First choice would be for David to evaporate the News-Events-Politics forum. There are vast numbers of online & other media for that.

But I fear he will not - so the other option is for all of us to not post there at all.
Just some history (for the sake of background, not to say it needs to determine the future).

Since Dhamma Wheel started, we have always had a Lounge section, and the Lounge is inevitably where people would go if they wanted to discuss anything that didn't fit specifically within the parameters of the Dhamma-centric forums. It included News and Current Events topics, but it also included all the usual word games, cat pictures, music videos, jokes and such. We had a mantra, from the early days, of providing "a time and a place for all discussion of interest to Theravada Buddhists"... and the Lounge was one part of that bigger picture - a bit of a "catch all" for anything that didn't logically fit elsewhere.

Then a couple of years ago there were two key challenges that arose simultaneously...

- An Engaged Buddhism forum was briefly created which, for all intents and purposes, was set up as a Left Wing Buddhism Forum, and was full of late-era Bhikkhu Bodhi flavoured activism, protesting against capitalism, black power retreats, rants against cultural appropriation, advertising marches against climate change, and the pursuit of other leftist agendas. It was so tightly controlled, that no dissent was allowed... even questioning how "Buddhist" such left-wing activism was could get you banned. (Hello Cormac Brown, if you're still around...)

- With major shifts and polarization in the political landscape (and therefore, plenty to talk about in that sphere), some people complained that the Lounge needed to be more Loungey, and not so serious.

The solution to address both those circumstances, was to dissolve the Engaged Buddhism forum (with topics dispersed back to other suitable sub-forums), and the creation of the News section, which was on a level-playing field, with no moderator intervention to bolster any flavour of political view. News topics were moved from the Lounge to the News section, and we introduced a self-service function to allow people to switch off the News section, if it wasn't amenable to them and their practice. Unfortunately, very few people have opted for sense restraint, and have opted instead to complain about the fact there was a News section.

Also, aside from what's been happening here at Dhamma Wheel, people in society in general have become increasingly accustomed to self-selecting their own media intake and social circles in a way that aligns to and confirms their own views and perspectives, thereby creating a customised, technology-enabled echo chamber. Then, alternative ideas, or even the prospect of people holding ideas different to those they find within their echo chamber is very threatening to them. Diversity of thought was once an exciting proposition for many... but now it seems like a source of terror and anxiety, and probably helps to explain why these psychological conditions are becoming more prevalent in society. This evolution is not Dhamma Wheel-centric in origin, but it plays out here too of course, because many people are increasingly establishing their own ideological echo chambers, which reaffirm their side's stereotypes of what kinds of people, with what kinds of moral shortcomings, would dare to disagree with them. As such, the open playing field of the News section, where favoured views and non-favoured views actually have to co-exist, is, I think, proving too much for the psyche of some people. (If anyone here thinks I'm talking about them specifically - no, I'm not). People have grown intellectually lazy, and socially anxious, and having that which they might otherwise be able to escape from, put literally in their faces by other Buddhists, elicits some of the knee-jerk reactivity and hyper-emotional carry-on that we see from some quarters. Most people can handle it, but it only takes a fraction who are intolerant of the presence of alternative viewpoints, to create a whole lot of unnecessary drama.

Whilst the prospect of closing down the News section isn't on my immediate horizon, the prospect of banning people from that sub-forum for their failure to abide by the rules of the News section is indeed on the cards. From my perspective, if a limited few people can't cope, and don't have the capacity for appropriate sense restraint, then they shouldn't be allowed to ruin it for everybody else. I'm also toying (although probably not very seriously) with the possibility of turning off (in contrast to prohibiting) the News access of anyone who complains about that section. They can always manually turn it back on, but they'll have to make the conscious decision to do so, at which point by "opting in" they've waived any legitimate grounds to complain about it.

But as I said earlier, that's just background, context, and where things sit now... none of which dictates what the future must look like, or what society-level trends we need to be cognizant of here at Dhamma Wheel in coming years.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Forgive me, but doesn't this sound just a tad bit authoritarian??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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catsquotl
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by catsquotl » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:50 am

I'm fairly new here, Although I have been an active member on other forum's.
This type of inquiry comes up every so often after a Forum has had a chance to develop to some maturity over time.
As people come and go the dynamics of the forum and the outlook/incentive to participate of "older" members change,
So a better question other than making a forum more the way one would like it to go. Is what can I attribute. Do I still want to do that. Or find greener grass in other adventures.

I realize that ignoring what one doesn't want to see is (in my experience) harder than just not visiting a forum at all.

Anyway What I cam to do was comment on the fact that I absolutely loved reading the following quote in aflatun's signature

"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53


I think it makes sense to contemplate this in light of this discussion as well.

With Love
Eelco
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please share your light in abundance
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:25 pm

Greetings,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:18 am
Forgive me, but doesn't this sound just a tad bit authoritarian??
It's OK, Lyndon. I forgive you.

:group:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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retrofuturist
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Re: Let's make this forum more Buddhist!

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:40 pm

Greetings Eelco,
catsquotl wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:50 am
This type of inquiry comes up every so often after a Forum has had a chance to develop to some maturity over time.
As people come and go the dynamics of the forum and the outlook/incentive to participate of "older" members change,
So a better question other than making a forum more the way one would like it to go. Is what can I attribute. Do I still want to do that. Or find greener grass in other adventures.
That's a good point.

What I come to Buddhist forums for has changed significantly over the years. Different people will be at different points on their own curve, yet we all co-exist in the present. For that reason I think it's important to respect other people's chosen mode of engagement, and acknowledge that our requirements, expectations and preferences will naturally be different.

Nowadays I have very little in the form of questions about the Dhamma to ask of others, whereas I was once full of them. If there were more people here who were au fait with the explanations of venerable Nanananda, I might have more to discuss, but even then that would just be discussion and exploration, rather than question asking.

Rather, what I see whilst at this forum, serves more as reminders of aspects of the Dhamma which might otherwise be less front of mind than others. In the absence of a physical Sangha, I appreciate this engagement. I also like answering member questions because the process of articulation and explanation can sometimes clarify one's own understanding.... (and if I am imprecise in my explanation, someone is sure to let me know!)

:D

Wherever we're at, may we do it well...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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