Like function?

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Mkoll
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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:38 am

Well, things change. Has there ever been a public vote on it?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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retrofuturist
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Re: Like function?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:40 am

Greetings Mkoll,
Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:38 am
Has there ever been a public vote on it?
No, and it's not a democracy so there's no need for one. That said, there's nothing stopping you from creating an opinion poll, should you wish.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:44 am

Just because the forum is not a democracy, that doesn't mean a public vote (with comments) can't be informative and even useful. Even dictators use statistics.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:48 am

Greetings Mkoll,
Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:44 am
Just because the forum is not a democracy, that doesn't mean a public vote (with comments) can't be informative and even useful. Even dictators use statistics.
That's what I said. You're welcome to create a poll if you're really interested in doing so. If you do, maybe link back to the previous topics above so people can understand why what seems on the surface like a decent idea, would simply foster the unwholesome qualities and patterns noted in my initial response to you above.

Personally, rather than a bunch of numbers, I'd be more convinced by a well reasoned argument that explained the benefits and demonstrated how they exceeded or at least mitigated the negative outcomes defined in my earlier post.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:48 am
Greetings Mkoll,
Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:44 am
Just because the forum is not a democracy, that doesn't mean a public vote (with comments) can't be informative and even useful. Even dictators use statistics.
That's what I said. You're welcome to create a poll if you're really interested in doing so. If you do, maybe link back to the previous topics above so people can understand why what seems on the surface like a decent idea, would simply foster the unwholesome qualities and patterns noted in my initial response to you above.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Well ultimately it wouldn't matter if I created a poll because even if it got a majority vote, the authority of the forum, i.e. you, would veto it.

:shrug:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:57 am

Greetings Mkoll,
Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 am
Well ultimately it wouldn't matter if I created a poll because even if it got a majority vote, the authority of the forum, i.e. you, would veto it.
David and I are definitely against it, as you can see from comments made in the previous discussions linked to above.

I also don't know of a moderator who has ever been in favour of it either, in the history of this forum. Remember, we spend a lot of time looking at the forum through a lens of the Terms of Service compliance and in terms of facilitating minimum standards for civil engagement, and in both regards (particularly the latter), the projected outcomes for such a function would be negative.

Many potential forum features would be neutral in terms of their impact on behaviours, but given this is not one of them, it's not one we're going to consider implementing... as I expect you already know from when this matter was raised earlier in the year, and clearly and unambiguously rejected by both David and myself.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:31 am
all I see it leading to in such an environment is unproductive patterns like ego-inflation, narcissism, popularity contests, bullying, group think and cliques. These are all qualities and forum behaviours which the current administration are not looking to give rise to.
IME, those patterns arise to the same degree with or without a like function. They're patterns conditioned by defilements, not the like function.

The benefit that a well-implemented like function brings is convenience and efficiency to those of us with limited time to browse forums to find posts that are most worth reading in our limited time.

And for the record, I frequent forums with and without like functions and unequivocally prefer having a like function vs. not having one.
there is no need to defer such discernment to anonymous strangers.
Like functions don't have to be anonymous. Like functions can provide a perfect public record of exactly which individual users liked what. I can show examples if you or anyone asks.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:37 am

Greetings Mkoll,
Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 am
They're patterns conditioned by defilements, not the like function.
Sure... but in the Dhamma, there is value given to the practice of sense restraint. Yet, due to some members lack of sense restraint, staff already have to put up with much in the way of senseless tantrums, whinging, moaning and complaining. We feel that such problems would be exacerbated, not minimized, by inflaming those defilements through the act of turning each and every post into a popularity contest.

On a related note, nowadays, I personally refrain from certain discussion topics, because some members' emotional regulation and tolerance is so poor that they get triggered by the mere presence of views that differ from their own. I find it baffling that people who cannot cope with alternative views would attend and participate in a forum environment, but there you go.

I'm not sure whether this is a byproduct of societal trends, and/or whether we're just more attuned to it, but staff have enough to do in terms of moderating and administering this forum without tending to the emotional meltdowns of adults who should in all honesty be capable of owning and managing their own emotions. Maybe if some members had better emotional regulation, we could consider such functionality, and we wouldn't need to be so mindful of not "triggering" them - yet we do. I can understand that as a member you may not see the full scope of this activity, but sometimes it feels like we are baby-sitting a room of man-babies. Not always, but far too often for my liking.

Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 am
The benefit that a well-implemented like function brings is convenience and efficiency to those of us with limited time to browse forums to find posts that are most worth reading in our limited time.
If you wish to outsource your thinking and reading materials to the masses, then you're welcome to hold that preference I guess.

Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 am
Like functions don't have to be anonymous. Like functions can provide a perfect public record of exactly which individual users liked what. I can show examples if you or anyone asks.
Well that's even worse, given we're trying to discourage unproductive egotistical activities like virtue signalling and white knighting.

Thank you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Could we have a 'like' button....

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:28 am

Given that Paul (retrofuturist) has used his power to lock my just-created thread here, viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30346, and suggested we continue the discussion in another thread, I've chosen this thread out of the ones he has dictated.

Does anyone have anything further to add to the suggestion for a like function, for or against? Of course, if there is no support from other members for a like function, I'm happy to drop the subject and not mention again.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:36 am

Greetings Mkoll,

Better still, I've now merged the two topics in order to keep the discussion altogether...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Like function?

Post by Aloka » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:59 pm

My honest opinion (which may not be popular), is that thumbs up and down for"like' and 'don't like' - or the words, or hearts, or whatever - in topics on a Buddhist discussion site looks inappropriate and rather juvenile.


.
Last edited by Aloka on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Like function?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:01 pm

Aloka wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:59 pm
My honest opinion (which may not be popular), is that thumbs up and down for"like' and 'don't like' -or hearts, or whatever - in topics on a Buddhist discussion site looks inappropriate and rather juvenile.


.
It's an opinion which is popular with me!

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Re: Like function?

Post by bodom » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:11 pm

Maybe an equanmity button would be better. :jumping:

As Buddhist meditators we are striving to give up our "likes and dislikes."

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

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Re: Like function?

Post by ieee23 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:21 pm

IMHO the nice thing about weboards is that they are not Facebook and not reddit. I think the ability to vote on comments encourages all sorts of regressive thinking and takes attention from what is communicated.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Mkoll
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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:58 pm

OK, sounds like there's no "like" for the "like" function.

:lol:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by DNS » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:01 pm

Best Dhamma talk by Bill Maher ever :tongue:


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mikenz66
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Re: Like function?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:58 pm
OK, sounds like there's no "like" for the "like" function.

:lol:

:lol:

I'm not clear that it makes much difference in practice. It just leads to different behaviours. On boards like this, with no like function people post short messages saying "I agree", or "Good post". On boards with like functions, such posts are redundant, and people just use the like button.

Mike

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Mkoll
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Re: Like function?

Post by Mkoll » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:31 am

DNS wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:01 pm
Best Dhamma talk by Bill Maher ever :tongue:
Not a Dhamma talk and totally unrelated but Maher knocked it out of the park in his ending segment last Friday.

Warning: foul language and if you're a Trump supporter you will not like it

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Like function?

Post by Spiny Norman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:19 am

I prefer :goodpost:
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: Like function?

Post by Spiny Norman » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:20 am

bodom wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:11 pm
As Buddhist meditators we are striving to give up our "likes and dislikes."
:goodpost:

:woohoo:
"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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