Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:29 am

Mkoll wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:Besides, what's wrong with asking people who enter, and people who leave, what they expect and what they didn't like? We, the most active forum members, may be somewhat unsynchronised with what many people want. If what they want doesn't go against the forum's principles, what is wrong with that? I really can't see anything wrong with that. Can you explain me what would be wrong?
I don't see anything wrong with that. Neither do I see much point in it either. I mean, what do you expect will follow if the moderators and forum staff have some poll results? What could they do with those results? What would they use the information for? What would they change?

And I don't think this forum is here to cater to "what many people want". This forum isn't trying to sell a product. This forum is not competing in a marketplace and trying to be better than other forums. It's, as the top of the page says: "A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada".

~~~

Granted, I'm not a particularly creative type of person so maybe I'm missing something. If that's the case, please enlighten me.
If you do a tracking of you personal spendings in a month you will discover that the thing you waste most money with is very often not what you think. This also happens with companies. It also happens with our time "spendings".

The point is precisely that we might be missing something important that we won't know because we are never tracking it. The forum is not here to cater to people. It is here to offer dhamma to people.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Mkoll
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:44 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:Besides, what's wrong with asking people who enter, and people who leave, what they expect and what they didn't like? We, the most active forum members, may be somewhat unsynchronised with what many people want. If what they want doesn't go against the forum's principles, what is wrong with that? I really can't see anything wrong with that. Can you explain me what would be wrong?
I don't see anything wrong with that. Neither do I see much point in it either. I mean, what do you expect will follow if the moderators and forum staff have some poll results? What could they do with those results? What would they use the information for? What would they change?

And I don't think this forum is here to cater to "what many people want". This forum isn't trying to sell a product. This forum is not competing in a marketplace and trying to be better than other forums. It's, as the top of the page says: "A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada".

~~~

Granted, I'm not a particularly creative type of person so maybe I'm missing something. If that's the case, please enlighten me.
If you do a tracking of you personal spendings in a month you will discover that the thing you waste most money with is very often not what you think. This also happens with companies. It also happens with our time "spendings".

The point is precisely that we might be missing something important that we won't know because we are never tracking it. The forum is not here to cater to people. It is here to offer dhamma to people.
The problem I see with that analogy is that I have a good idea of what I waste the most time and money on. And even if I didn't, I'd have a list of definite possibilities as to what it could be. I'd also know in advance the step I could take to remedy the situation; namely, to spend my time and money more wisely and frugally. The same goes with companies.

It doesn't apply here because we're not working with anything so concrete. Also, I can't even begin to imagine what's wrong, let alone imagine what steps to take in the direction of a solution. Say the forum is missing "something". What could that something possibly be? And what would be done about it? So far, we've come up with one example: change the forum software. Can anyone else think of any other possibilities else beside that?

~~~

Again, I'm not averse to the whole idea of someone else doing this. If some members and staff want to work together and create a poll to apply to people, go ahead.

It's worth mentioning that I've never had to take an entrance or exit poll on any online forum I've ever joined at least a few dozen.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

soapy3
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by soapy3 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:35 pm

I try to come here only to get straightforward questions answered. Dhammawheel is excellent for that. There are so many well studied people participating.

I try to avoid hanging around for discussions on Buddhist Internet forums. The discussions tend to degenerate into ever more heated exchanges about ever more smaller and smaller points.

If I regularly use a Buddhist Internet forum sooner or later I find myself getting sucked into that mentality.

Regular use of Buddhist Internet forums seems to take me in the opposite direction of where Buddhism and meditation are trying to go.

So, I am happy to come to places like this when I have a question, thank people, and move on.

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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SarathW » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:22 am

One satisfied customer will recommend the product to another person.
One unsatisfied customer will tell that to the whole world.
==========
I wish this guy had an exist interview.
:)

I want to clarify my reasons for leaving the formal Buddha-sasana and becoming an independent monk. the temples are no longer following the Buddha's guidelines for community decision-making. INSTEAD OF A BALANCE OF POWER BETWEEN THE SENIOR MONKS AND THE COMMUNITY CONSENSUS, THE CHIEF MONKS HAVE BECOME DICTATORS. There are no more community meetings, no more consultations and open discussions among the monks, no more voting on important issues. The senior monk in every temple is the supreme authority, and there is no way to appeal or challenge his decisions. I can stand any kind of person, as long as he is sincere and honest. But the deception going on in the temples is beyond my ability to tolerate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2riVnBDwr4
==============

PS: Dhamma Wheel is my virtual temple. :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SarathW » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:56 am

Dhamma Wheel is reaching a very important mile stone by nearing it's membership to 10000 members.
I have noticed its users on line has grown remarkably to averaging about 140 users at a given moment.
That is a substantial improvement to when I did my post on 7/7/14 when it was 0.95%.
Now users on line averaging 1.4% (ie 140/9993*100)
It is a 50% increase from 0.95% to 1.4%
Congratulation to all for who work so hard to get the forum to a such high level of achievement specially to David and the management team not to mention the regular contributors and readers.
:clap:

It appears there is a high level of down time.
I believe it is due to the high traffic.

It is just the nature of Samsara (Dukkha) . :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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samseva
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by samseva » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:27 am

SarathW wrote:Dhamma Wheel is reaching a very important mile stone by nearing it's membership to 10000 members.
I have noticed its users on line has grown remarkably to averaging about 140 users at a given moment.
That is a substantial improvement to when I did my post on 7/7/14 when it was 0.95%.
Now users on line averaging 1.4% (ie 140/9993*100)
It is a 50% increase from 0.95% to 1.4%
Congratulation to all for who work so hard to get the forum to a such high level of achievement specially to David and the management team not to mention the regular contributors and readers.
:clap:

It appears there is a high level of down time.
I believe it is due to the high traffic.

It is just the nature of Samsara (Dukkha) . :)
I don't want to rain on your parade, Sarath, but the total number of members doesn't say much about a forum (for forums past a certain age). The reason for this is that new users continually register, but 80% of the time will post a few times and then never return. The profiles aren't automatically closed after a long period of inactivity, so you're left with large amounts of zombie accounts (not dead, but not alive).

What are good indications of a forum's health are participation, the quality of the discussions, number of daily posts and so on. I think this is already happening and even if it were even at a larger scale, it wouldn't necessarily be better.

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seeker242
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by seeker242 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm

If one were to examine the proper website statistics, like pageviews, hits and especially unique visitors, etc. and compare them to last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago, etc. I bet one would find that it is growing. :)

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SDC
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SDC » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:14 pm

If we count spammers then we're the most popular forum on the internet!!!

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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sein » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:01 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comm ... ammawheel/

May be the "intellectual" atmosphere make people consider twice before posting then? Don't know if it good or bad.

Anw, I suggest there should be a monthly/weekly voting for best thread. Then share the thread to some Buddhism big forum like reddit /r/Buddhism, etc,... And have a post include all the best thread.

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Sea Turtle
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sea Turtle » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:42 pm

Perhaps could be a more supportive/welcoming/inclusive environment for female practitioners? (Approximately 50% of the human population, so a good potential membership base!) :thumbsup:

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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SDC » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:57 pm

Sein wrote:May be the "intellectual" atmosphere make people consider twice before posting then? Don't know if it good or bad.
Very possible.

Reminds me of a very sad interaction from a few years back when one of our resident Pali experts was responding in a thread. By page two another member had begun to object to the technical terminology being used, but instead of asking for clarification this member just went about accusing the poster of talking over people with "his Pali prowess". I'll never forget it. Knowledge was the enemy. The member who was sharing their knowledge of Pali - instead of being seen as a valued resource - was perceived as trying to make others feel stupid. :(

For me when I see someone post something that I do not understand (due to the depth of the words or the technical presentation), I try to do everything I can to understand it. And if I fail to do so I will either ask for clarification or I will double down my own efforts to become familiar with what that person is saying so that the next time I may understand. And if that effort fails, then I reconcile the fact that if I want to speak on those terms that I have to work hard in order to do it. But by no means am I going to ask that member to altogether dial back their mode of responding for my own sake.

The membership on DW as a whole have done a very poor job of protecting and appreciating two types of members: those who know very little and those who know very much. The former are scolded for their confusion and the latter for their abundance of knowledge. The only "acceptable" member is one who shows they know something but not too much.

I could rattle off the names of several members who's knowledge is beyond value, but due to the resistance (or lack of appreciation) they have encountered over the years have either left altogether or just pop up from time to time. That is not to say that one or two were not quite arrogant, but it should be worth the hassle in most cases IMO. While I do not believe one needs to be a Pali expert in order to make progress, that does not mean I don't rely heavily on the work of such experts to clarify meaning (because I do), and I would much rather be humbled by their expertise then be without it.

Just my take.

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SDC
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SDC » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:21 pm

Sea Turtle wrote:Perhaps could be a more supportive/welcoming/inclusive environment for female practitioners? (Approximately 50% of the human population, so a good potential membership base!) :thumbsup:
History on this forum speaks for itself. There is no need to dredge up some of those awful memories, but those who remember know that it is not a mystery why we had a mass exodus of females a few years ago. Unfortunately DW has never recovered that base.

I'll let out a deep and dark secret about the aggro approach to posting that we see every so often (usually by males): it is incredibly fragile. In fact, the harder a member is asserting themselves, the more uncertain it is likely they are with what they are asserting. Because if they really knew it, they would not have to try so hard to say it --- they would just say it, move along, and hope that another can understand it. I think females would be more inclined to jump in knowing that the " :x pissing contests :x " are in fact the DW children playing and it is quite easy to talk above or beside them. Unfortunately the childish incidents are probably not going to go away, but there are many male members who ignore them as well and you should feel no need to join in.

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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by dagon » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:51 pm

SDC wrote:
Sea Turtle wrote:Perhaps could be a more supportive/welcoming/inclusive environment for female practitioners? (Approximately 50% of the human population, so a good potential membership base!) :thumbsup:
History on this forum speaks for itself. There is no need to dredge up some of those awful memories, but those who remember know that it is not a mystery why we had a mass exodus of females a few years ago. Unfortunately DW has never recovered that base.

I'll let out a deep and dark secret about the aggro approach to posting that we see every so often (usually by males): it is incredibly fragile. In fact, the harder a member is asserting themselves, the more uncertain it is likely they are with what they are asserting. Because if they really knew it, they would not have to try so hard to say it --- they would just say it, move along, and hope that another can understand it. I think females would be more inclined to jump in knowing that the " :x pissing contests :x " are in fact the DW children playing and it is quite easy to talk above or beside them. Unfortunately the childish incidents are probably not going to go away, but there are many male members who ignore them as well and you should feel no need to join in.
Sorry but it is not just a historical event - it continues... I suspect that I could even identify one of the recent threads where male chauvinistic attitudes were used to dismiss female posters. It is easy to be dismissive or discount the effect of some of those types of posts on the female members - when we have the same bruises then maybe we can be more understanding. Saying that female members should "ignore them as well and you should feel no need to join in" does not cut it. What is the fact is that without the ongoing support of "that 50%" of the community Buddhism would have been very luck to survive.

Many (most?) DW members are male and western. A lot have wives who are not Buddhist but provide the male members with acceptance or support without which their practice would be a lot harder to maintain. I know and respect the attitudes of DW site owner / Admin and Mods have to the immense contribution that women can, and aspire, to make. As a community there is a lot of potential development that we can make in our attitudes - in the process we may even enhance out own development.

The rest of the post I totally agree with.

metta
dagon

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SDC
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by SDC » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:27 pm

dagon wrote:Sorry but it is not just a historical event - it continues... I suspect that I could even identify one of the recent threads where male chauvinistic attitudes were used to dismiss female posters. It is easy to be dismissive or discount the effect of some of those types of posts on the female members - when we have the same bruises then maybe we can be more understanding. Saying that female members should "ignore them as well and you should feel no need to join in" does not cut it. What is the fact is that without the ongoing support of "that 50%" of the community Buddhism would have been very luck to survive.

Many (most?) DW members are male and western. A lot have wives who are not Buddhist but provide the male members with acceptance or support without which their practice would be a lot harder to maintain. I know and respect the attitudes of DW site owner / Admin and Mods have to the immense contribution that women can, and aspire, to make. As a community there is a lot of potential development that we can make in our attitudes - in the process we may even enhance out own development.

The rest of the post I totally agree with.

metta
dagon
I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying the "just ignore/feel no need to join the antics" as the solution to the issue (because there is indeed more to it), but just making members aware that the aggressive attitudes are often not the measure of a good post and that such behavior, IMO, is not something anyone should aspire to. Merely letting people know that I personally do not find it appealing and work very hard to not get involved with it. Sometimes I feel that our female members think that this aggressive approach is the ideal around here and I can assure them that many many people (both male and female) are over it and have been over it for quite some time.

And as far as the mention of past history that was for information and not to say that the problem is not still here.

dagon
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by dagon » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:08 pm

SDC wrote: I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying the "just ignore/feel no need to join the antics" as the solution to the issue (because there is indeed more to it), but just making members aware that the aggressive attitudes are often not the measure of a good post and that such behavior, IMO, is not something anyone should aspire to. Merely letting people know that I personally do not find it appealing and work very hard to not get involved with it. Sometimes I feel that our female members think that this aggressive approach is the ideal around here and I can assure them that many many people (both male and female) are over it and have been over it for quite some time.

And as far as the mention of past history that was for information and not to say that the problem is not still here.
Apologises for my misunderstanding and thank you for the clarification.

I know there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that (thankfully) most of us are unaware of. If the members want to see DW grow / improve / become more inclusive then we need to lift our game. Some of the negative responses to problematic posts would be reduced if we complied with the TOS and reported problem posts rather than ignoring them or jumping into the fray. In my experience the mods have been very responsive. Thanks for you efforts :anjali:

metta
dagon

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