Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:12 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:09 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:36 pm
It should be apparent that the vast majority of knowledgeable members choose not to participate at all, ie Ven. Yuttadhamma, Parinibbana, Ven. Samahita, Dylanj...
To my knowledge, the monk's (formerly Noah Greenspoon) name is Yuttadhammo rather than Yuttadhamma. This shows I am also "knowledgeable".
i am pretty sure his monk name is actually Yuttadhamma and it is fine to use that form. Similar to how Buddha is not spelled Buddho. The meaning is one who has the Dhamma. This is the extent of your knowledge so yes your are indeed very "knowledgeable".
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:13 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
There are quarrelsome brutes shrouded in delusion. These people are putting down and are annoying good people and since the ignorant brutes are not expelled the good people leave the forum because there is no companionship with fools.
Good people do not get annoyed. :heart:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:15 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:13 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
There are quarrelsome brutes shrouded in delusion. These people are putting down and are annoying good people and since the ignorant brutes are not expelled the good people leave the forum because there is no companionship with fools.
Good people do not get annoyed. :heart:
I am glad you mentioned it;
"A quarrelsome bhikkhu shrouded by delusion, does not comprehend the Dhamma taught by the Awakened One when it is revealed. Annoying those practiced in meditation, being led by ignorance, he is not aware that his defiled path leads to Niraya-hell. Falling headlong, passing from womb to womb, from darkness to (greater) darkness, such a bhikkhu undergoes suffering hereafter for certain.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:34 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:15 am
A quarrelsome bhikkhu shrouded by delusion, does not comprehend the Dhamma taught by the Awakened One when it is revealed. Annoying those practiced in meditation, being led by ignorance, he is not aware that his defiled path leads to Niraya-hell. Falling headlong, passing from womb to womb, from darkness to (greater) darkness, such a bhikkhu undergoes suffering hereafter for certain.
I am glad you mentioned it because this above teaching does not apply to you thus I recommend you do not cling to it (because this is a discussion forum rather than a meditation centre). The bottom line is you appear to have a history of posting your personal interpretations of Buddhism here and when others disagree with you; you give the impression of getting annoyed. This is unrelated to silent meditation. Instead, it is clinging to views & self. It is was the Lord Buddha called: "Grasping the Snake" (MN 22). Personally, my mind is generally always joyful when I post (while doing business during the day or playing Scrabble now). :smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:40 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:34 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:15 am
A quarrelsome bhikkhu shrouded by delusion, does not comprehend the Dhamma taught by the Awakened One when it is revealed. Annoying those practiced in meditation, being led by ignorance, he is not aware that his defiled path leads to Niraya-hell. Falling headlong, passing from womb to womb, from darkness to (greater) darkness, such a bhikkhu undergoes suffering hereafter for certain.
I am glad you mentioned it because this above teaching does not apply to you thus I recommend you do not cling to it (because this is a discussion forum rather than a meditation centre). The bottom line is you appear to have a history of posting your personal interpretations of Buddhism here and when others disagree with you; you get annoyed. This is unrelated to silent meditation.
cool story bro
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:45 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:40 am
cool story bro
Thanks bro. :hug:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:47 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
It is not clear why you put "knowledge" in quotation marks in this context and i could assume it means that it is your conviction that a person who had real knowledge would not be expressing a perceived lack of kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and a lack of calmness.
No, it's merely to emphasise the point that, on-line, a person who claims to be knowledgeable may not have the knowledge they claim. Their knowledge is soi-disant and provisional until tested and verified.
However i guess you actually meant that people with real knowledge would neither be leaving the forum nor displaying a lack of those other traits and this was but a passive aggressive insult aimed at me.
No, your guess is wrong, so I'm happy to clarify the point and not leave it to guesswork. My point is that there are many traits (including quarrelsome brutishness!) which make for a lack of conviviality and - possibly - fewer posts on this and other forums. When people are knowledgeable, others stick around. But they tend not to when those knowledgeable people, or others, are aggressive, denigrating, arrogant, unwilling to listen, and dismissive. It takes more than one virtue to build a good community, and that applies I think to all of us.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:49 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:45 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:40 am
cool story bro
Thanks bro. :hug:
Here on the name Yuttadhamma;

here on personal interpretations of the Dhamma;
viewtopic.php?t=32484

Did you ever come up with that alternative interpretation you were looking for?
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:55 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:47 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
It is not clear why you put "knowledge" in quotation marks in this context and i could assume it means that it is your conviction that a person who had real knowledge would not be expressing a perceived lack of kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and a lack of calmness.
No, it's merely to emphasise the point that, on-line, a person who claims to be knowledgeable may not have the knowledge they claim. Their knowledge is soi-disant and provisional until tested and verified.
However i guess you actually meant that people with real knowledge would neither be leaving the forum nor displaying a lack of those other traits and this was but a passive aggressive insult aimed at me.
No, your guess is wrong, so I'm happy to clarify the point and not leave it to guesswork. My point is that there are many traits (including quarrelsome brutishness!) which make for a lack of conviviality and - possibly - fewer posts on this and other forums. When people are knowledgeable, others stick around. But they tend not to when those knowledgeable people, or others, are aggressive, denigrating, arrogant, unwilling to listen, and dismissive. It takes more than one virtue to build a good community, and that applies I think to all of us.
I am curious If that was the meaning your statement then why did you use quotation marks?
Also i am curious as to how do you think this applies to the forum, who are the knowledgeable people that are aggro in your opinion, could you give an example?
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:40 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:55 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:47 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
It is not clear why you put "knowledge" in quotation marks in this context and i could assume it means that it is your conviction that a person who had real knowledge would not be expressing a perceived lack of kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and a lack of calmness.
No, it's merely to emphasise the point that, on-line, a person who claims to be knowledgeable may not have the knowledge they claim. Their knowledge is soi-disant and provisional until tested and verified.
However i guess you actually meant that people with real knowledge would neither be leaving the forum nor displaying a lack of those other traits and this was but a passive aggressive insult aimed at me.
No, your guess is wrong, so I'm happy to clarify the point and not leave it to guesswork. My point is that there are many traits (including quarrelsome brutishness!) which make for a lack of conviviality and - possibly - fewer posts on this and other forums. When people are knowledgeable, others stick around. But they tend not to when those knowledgeable people, or others, are aggressive, denigrating, arrogant, unwilling to listen, and dismissive. It takes more than one virtue to build a good community, and that applies I think to all of us.
I am curious If that was the meaning your statement then why did you use quotation marks?
Also i am curious as to how do you think this applies to the forum, who are the knowledgeable people that are aggro in your opinion, could you give an example?
Your first question is answered above. The quotation marks signify that, until verified, a claim to have knowledge is merely that: a claim.

As for the second question, I refer you to my phrase "and I think that applies to all of us". It's for reflection, not for naming and shaming.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:49 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:40 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:55 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:47 am


No, it's merely to emphasise the point that, on-line, a person who claims to be knowledgeable may not have the knowledge they claim. Their knowledge is soi-disant and provisional until tested and verified.



No, your guess is wrong, so I'm happy to clarify the point and not leave it to guesswork. My point is that there are many traits (including quarrelsome brutishness!) which make for a lack of conviviality and - possibly - fewer posts on this and other forums. When people are knowledgeable, others stick around. But they tend not to when those knowledgeable people, or others, are aggressive, denigrating, arrogant, unwilling to listen, and dismissive. It takes more than one virtue to build a good community, and that applies I think to all of us.
I am curious If that was the meaning your statement then why did you use quotation marks?
Also i am curious as to how do you think this applies to the forum, who are the knowledgeable people that are aggro in your opinion, could you give an example?
Your first question is answered above. The quotation marks signify that, until verified, a claim to have knowledge is merely that: a claim.

As for the second question, I refer you to my phrase "and I think that applies to all of us". It's for reflection, not for naming and shaming.
Ok thank you for clarifying. Usually quotation marks signify irony or sarcasm hence the misunderstanding.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

binocular
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by binocular » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:30 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:43 am
Anyway, i think it will remain stagnant and i would be very surprised if it does not further decline. The remedy is obviously to expel the cancer** and make rules to protect the good posters and to restrain the bad ones.
There's simply a limit to what can be accomplished in a discussion forum like this.
Generally, the more difficult the topics, the less amenable they are to be effectively discussed by a group of non-experts.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by binocular » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:48 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
Thus stating that the pseudo-knowledge makes people especially non-companionable posters.

This is basically what i have been saying all along;
There are quarrelsome brutes shrouded in delusion. These people are putting down and are annoying good people and since the ignorant brutes are not expelled the good people leave the forum because there is no companionship with fools.
I already told you several times: allow posting only to people who have reached at least stream entry, and make the others shut up.
So stop being all saddle and no horse, attain a position of power and start your purge, your very own čistka.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:00 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:48 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am
Thus stating that the pseudo-knowledge makes people especially non-companionable posters.

This is basically what i have been saying all along;
There are quarrelsome brutes shrouded in delusion. These people are putting down and are annoying good people and since the ignorant brutes are not expelled the good people leave the forum because there is no companionship with fools.
I already told you several times: allow posting only to people who have reached at least stream entry, and make the others shut up.
So stop being all saddle and no horse, attain a position of power and start your purge, your very own čistka.
I don't think only stream enterers should post, imo that would surely be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As for attaining a position of power to start the purge, i honestly would not purge people but i think some effort could be made to somehow contain and check certain attitudes. Also with power comes responsibility so tnx but no tnx.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by binocular » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:20 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:00 pm
I don't think only stream enterers should post, imo that would surely be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Oh. So you want butterflies, but you don't want the caterpillars ...
i think some effort could be made to somehow contain and check certain attitudes.

Which attitudes?

I think the real brute is someone who claims to be wishing others metta, but who actually hates them. Then another especially vicious kind of brute are those who appeal to power, but who blatantly deny doing so and who call to "rationality" and "critical thinking".

The people who post profanities or who lack faith are actually the least of problems, even though they are usually presented as being the worst.
Also with power comes responsibility so tnx but no tnx.
That's cowardly. You keep calling for a change, but you don't want to do anything about it.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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