Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1832
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:55 pm
Location: Whitby, Canada

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:07 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:04 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:43 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:37 am


There seem to be mixed reviews up-thread. My advice would be to be the change you want to see, and use the suggestion box to propose positive changes. :anjali:
One cannot grow a rose bush in a swamp.
Lotuses do very well, though.
A pity this weren't a Mahāyāna forum, I suppose, then.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by binocular » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:39 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:43 am
One cannot grow a rose bush in a swamp.
And roses have thorns. To boot, on those thorns, there live dangerous bacteria.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

santa100
Posts: 3135
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by santa100 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:25 pm

An interesting OP question, but a more important question, imho, is for each member to ask themselves the exact reason why s/he posts on DW. Is it simple chit chat to kill time? to show off one's impressive Dhamma knowledge to others? to stir up gossips and frivolous talks? If those are the reason then yes, it'd be bad if there's a small DW audience. But if it's out of the intention to learn, to seek unbiased Dhamma or share Dhamma information to help one another making progress on the path, then it doesn't matter if there're 400 or 4 participants, for one'd only need 1 to supply the required info. and 1 to get the info provided. Furthermore, in a distant future (or maybe not too distant), future archaeologists will dig up all the CPUs from the rubble of a collapsed civilization, they won't care about which sites had the most traffic or looked the most flashy. Instead they'll only care about which one provided the most accurate data and info. with the least noise so they can retrieve the much needed valuable information and pass it on to future generations to rebuild a better world whether on this earth or on another earth. Keeping this cosmic perspective in mind, reshape your thinking to the approach to DW postings and I think DW will do just fine.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:12 pm

santa100 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:25 pm
An interesting OP question, but a more important question, imho, is for each member to ask themselves the exact reason why s/he posts on DW. Is it simple chit chat to kill time? to show off one's impressive Dhamma knowledge to others? to stir up gossips and frivolous talks? If those are the reason then yes, it'd be bad if there's a small DW audience. But if it's out of the intention to learn, to seek unbiased Dhamma or share Dhamma information to help one another making progress on the path, then it doesn't matter if there're 400 or 4 participants, for one'd only need 1 to supply the required info. and 1 to get the info provided. Furthermore, in a distant future (or maybe not too distant), future archaeologists will dig up all the CPUs from the rubble of a collapsed civilization, they won't care about which sites had the most traffic or looked the most flashy. Instead they'll only care about which one provided the most accurate data and info. with the least noise so they can retrieve the much needed valuable information and pass it on to future generations to rebuild a better world whether on this earth or on another earth. Keeping this cosmic perspective in mind, reshape your thinking to the approach to DW postings and I think DW will do just fine.
:thumbsup: :goodpost:

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 11880
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DNS » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:50 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:Just look at what this forum used to be in 2014. Or even 2016.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:07 am
Binocular, for example, left because of the horrible culture of posting here. And she was a very tough cookie to hang out here as long as she did.
This is simply not true. Binocular has been posting frequently and more so in recent years than the past. This can be seen by clicking on the profile and clicking on "Search user's posts" and you can see the history. In fact binocular made almost NO posts from 2014 to 2016. Don't believe it, then check for yourself.

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2187
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:36 pm

DNS wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:50 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:Just look at what this forum used to be in 2014. Or even 2016.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:07 am
Binocular, for example, left because of the horrible culture of posting here. And she was a very tough cookie to hang out here as long as she did.
This is simply not true. Binocular has been posting frequently and more so in recent years than the past. This can be seen by clicking on the profile and clicking on "Search user's posts" and you can see the history. In fact binocular made almost NO posts from 2014 to 2016. Don't believe it, then check for yourself.
I think the diagnosis is accurate but Binocular was a bad example. It should be apparent that the vast majority of knowledgeable members choose not to participate at all, ie Ven. Yuttadhamma, Parinibbana, Ven. Samahita, Dylanj and the list is very long if we include members who post rather rarely. Now those listed among themselves have over 100 thousands of people consuming their content online so it is obviously a loss for DW to lose their participation. Of those knowledgeable gems of people who do choose to participate the participation is usually minimal.

[Violations of TOS2f removed]
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
budo
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am
Location: The world

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by budo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm

It's funny, every forum I've been on which were the top forums in a certain category, whether for finance, science, video games, etc.. had someone start a thread "why is this forum not growing" with the same type of debates on which members are worthwhile and which aren't. :jumping:

No one is stopping anyone from 1) posting good content / dhamma 2) creating their own forum

Ahhhh the entitlement.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20149
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:30 am

Greetings,

Please note that content violating TOS2f as it relates to vilification of individuals based on their level of experience has been removed. Please desist from any further crass displays of elitism...

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2187
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:43 am

budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
Ahhhh the entitlement.
So people wanting to improve things is them being entitled? There is a suggestion box section of the forum stating;
Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
Perhaps you were expressing your own sense of entitlement to participate in this discussion which prompted you to make that post :thinking: probably not i think.
budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
2) creating their own forum
As for creating a new forum. I really don't care one way or another and i certainly don't need any kind of forum myself. I am ok with whatever the situation is. In regards to Buddhism's growth and the extent of other people's prosperity in the Dhamma, i don't care either and i have no doubt that those who are ready to grasp will grasp the Dhamma quickly.

As i see it improving DW would be good, creating a better forum would also be good, developing an advanced platform would be better, establishing a domestic religious organization would be very good and international one better yet but i think the best course of action is to get ordained and live quietly alone in the forest somewhere.
budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
No one is stopping anyone from 1) posting good content / dhamma
You make it sound so trivial. Most people could not post good content if their life depended on it. People who can post good content and Dhamma are few and far between. As for people stopping one, sure no one is actually physically stopping people from posting BUT for lack of certain conditions like a respectful audience or rather being faced with abuse and harrasment people may be disinclined from posting good content.

I wonder if the admins and moderators have not yet started to reconsider their involvement with this project. I can't imagine ya'll find the current state of affairs much stimulating. I am obviously speculating but i sometimes wonder why does Dhammanando bother posting, i am thinking perhaps it is out of compassion and a sense of ownership as a founding member* :shrug: I'd bet it would deteriorate quickly if he took a longer break...
*if the venerable sir is an arahant unable to be assailed by notions of ownership i obv apologize

Anyway, i think it will remain stagnant and i would be very surprised if it does not further decline. The remedy is obviously to expel the cancer** and make rules to protect the good posters and to restrain the bad ones.

** Halfwit comments, loose tongues, wrong views etc

User avatar
budo
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am
Location: The world

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by budo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:43 am
budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
Ahhhh the entitlement.
So people wanting to improve things is them being entitled? There is a suggestion box section of the forum stating;
Tell us how you think the forum can be improved. We will listen.
Perhaps you were expressing your own sense of entitlement to participate in this discussion which prompted you to make that post :thinking: probably not i think.
budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
2) creating their own forum
As for creating a new forum. I really don't care one way or another and i certainly don't need any kind of forum myself. I am ok with whatever the situation is. In regards to Buddhism's growth and the extent of other people's prosperity in the Dhamma, i don't care either and i have no doubt that those who are ready to grasp will grasp the Dhamma quickly.

As i see it improving DW would be good, creating a better forum would also be good, developing an advanced platform would be better, establishing a domestic religious organization would be very good and international one better yet but i think the best course of action is to get ordained and live quietly alone in the forest somewhere.
budo wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:46 pm
No one is stopping anyone from 1) posting good content / dhamma
You make it sound so trivial. Most people could not post good content if their life depended on it. People who can post good content and Dhamma are few and far between. As for people stopping one, sure no one is actually physically stopping people from posting BUT for lack of certain conditions like a respectful audience or rather being faced with abuse and harrasment people may be disinclined from posting good content.

I wonder if the admins and moderators have not yet started to reconsider their involvement with this project. I can't imagine ya'll find the current state of affairs much stimulating. I am obviously speculating but i sometimes wonder why does Dhammanando bother posting, i am thinking perhaps it is out of compassion and a sense of ownership as a founding member* :shrug: I'd bet it would deteriorate quickly if he took a longer break...
*if the venerable sir is an arahant unable to be assailed by notions of ownership i obv apologize

Anyway, i think it will remain stagnant and i would be very surprised if it does not further decline. The remedy is obviously to expel the cancer** and make rules to protect the good posters and to restrain the bad ones.

** Halfwit comments, loose tongues, wrong views etc
The paradox is that the people you look up to, who you consider worthy of posting good Dhamma, don't care and are not bothered by these issues because they have rescued themselves already, whereas the people who you look down upon and criticize are the same ones who happen to be complaining for not getting their entitlements met.

It's like a homeless person getting angry at rich people for not giving them enough money and then cursing them. The one who has nothing is entitled and demanding, the rich people will simply shrug and walk away, they won't bend over to the homeless man's demands. If you truly have better knowledge than others, then you should post it, otherwise you have nothing like a homeless person and are simply demanding more.

If you want people to help you and share with you what they know, try being pleasant instead of demanding. It's literally in the beginning of the dhammapadda,
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
Ironically, it's this state of demanding and entitlement that's keeping you trapped, like a Chinese finger trap, the more you push and pull the worse it gets, maybe just relax instead and the trap will slip off on its own.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:30 am

budo wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am

If you want people to help you and share with you what they know, try being pleasant instead of demanding. It's literally in the beginning of the dhammapadda,
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
:goodpost: :thumbsup:

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2187
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:39 am

budo wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am
The paradox is that the people you look up to, who you consider worthy of posting good Dhamma, don't care and are not bothered by these issues because they have rescued themselves already, whereas the people who you look down upon and criticize are the same ones who happen to be complaining for not getting their entitlements met.
This is not making any sense to me.

However;

Of course people are not entitled to favorable conditions and should not demand things. Whom have you seen demanding things in this case?
In response to OP i merely pointed out what i think to be unfavorable conditions preventing good posts and participation, pretty much the same thing as you said here;
budo wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am
If you want people to help you and share with you what they know, try being pleasant instead of demanding.
If people want good content they should make sure to provide a pleasant environment for the teacher and not feel entitled to knowledgeable posters teaching.
budo wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 am
If you truly have better knowledge than others, then you should post it, otherwise you have nothing like a homeless person and are simply demanding more.
I don't get it. If i have better knowledge than others, i can choose to post it, not posting it does not make me not having knowledge. It is not clear what you mean by abstaining making me have nothing like a homeless person and simply demanding more. If a person refuses to share knowledge because of unfavorable conditions it does not liken him to a beggar.
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding an umbrella (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a walking stick (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a cutting object (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone holding a weapon (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is wearing shoes (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is wearing sandals (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is inside a vehicle (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is lying down (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is sitting with the knees raised and the arms around (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone wearing a turban (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone whose head is covered (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who sits on a rug spread on the ground while sitting directly on the ground (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone sitting at a higher level (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is sitting while one is standing (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who is walking ahead (unless he is ill).
Not to teach the dhamma to someone who walks on a footpath while one is walking to the side of this footpath (unless he is ill).
Surely there are unfavorable conditions for teaching... Does not teaching in these cases make one entitled to favorable conditions?
This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding. And if I were to teach the Dhamma and if others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me."..
As the Blessed One reflected thus, his mind inclined to dwelling at ease, not to teaching the Dhamma.

Do you think that the Tathagata is expressing entitlement to being understood here?

If one were to say let's expel this ignorant brute shrouded in delusion as per
"As a cesspool filled over a number of years is difficult to clean, similarly, whoever is full of impurity is difficult to make pure. Whoever you know to be such, bhikkhus, bent on worldliness, having wrong desires, wrong thoughts, wrong behavior and resort, being completely united avoid him, sweep him out like dirt, remove him like rubbish. Winnow like chaff the non-recluses. Having ejected those of wrong desires, of wrong behavior and resort, be pure and mindful, dwelling with those who are pure. Being united and prudent you will make an end to suffering."
Does this make one entitled like a beggar?

Furthermore the Tathagata laid down rules for participation in a discussion, if a wise person chooses to not to participate in a discussion that lacks the favorable conditions does this make him entitled to favorable conditions like a beggar?
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:05 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:39 am
I don't get it. If i have better knowledge than others, i can choose to post it
Indeed. Providing one does not breach the ToS, one can choose to post anything one likes, regardless of knowledge.

One hopes, though, that everybody will post mindfully, being aware that there are other virtues as well as knowledge: for example, kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and calmness. People whose "knowledge" outstrips their other virtues tend not to be companionable posters, especially when they want to "teach" and set people straight when they haven't been invited to do so.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3154
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:09 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:36 pm
It should be apparent that the vast majority of knowledgeable members choose not to participate at all, ie Ven. Yuttadhamma, Parinibbana, Ven. Samahita, Dylanj...
To my knowledge, the monk's (formerly Noah Greenspoon) name is Yuttadhammo rather than Yuttadhamma. This shows I am also "knowledgeable". This said, I imagine those that cease to post are either not particularly popular, too intolerant, too busy, don't see the benefit of posting & don't have any attainment that gives Dhamma Delight. For example, it appears Yuttadhammo (not Yuttadhamma) used to but ceased to post on another forum where the moderators remain his followers. Obviously Yuttadhammo is busy; possibly at places like 2nd Life (whatever it is called) creating imaginary Arahants. To post in forums, one must have patience and tolerance due to the diversity of views. The Buddha praised four qualities for social relationships: (i) honesty (sacca); (ii) training in self-improvement (dama); (iii) patience (khanti); and (iv) sacrifice (caga). Whether in a marriage, as a monk or on a forum, lots of patience & sacrifice is required. Giving up sticky clinging to the heavy self. Practising the Simile of the Saw (MN 21). When bandits use a double-ended saw to shred to pieces the views we clinging to so tenanciously, we need the medication of MN 21: Simile of the Saw. :hug:
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2187
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:05 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:39 am
I don't get it. If i have better knowledge than others, i can choose to post it
Indeed. Providing one does not breach the ToS, one can choose to post anything one likes, regardless of knowledge.

One hopes, though, that everybody will post mindfully, being aware that there are other virtues as well as knowledge: for example, kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and calmness. People whose "knowledge" outstrips their other virtues tend not to be companionable posters, especially when they want to "teach" and set people straight when they haven't been invited to do so.
It is not clear why you put "knowledge" in quotation marks in this context and i could assume it means that it is your conviction that a person who had real knowledge would not be expressing a perceived lack of kindness, lack of denigration, humility, appreciation of others, and a lack of calmness.

Thus stating that the pseudo-knowledge makes people especially non-companionable posters.

This is basically what i have been saying all along;
There are quarrelsome brutes shrouded in delusion. These people are putting down and are annoying good people and since the ignorant brutes are not expelled the good people leave the forum because there is no companionship with fools.

However i guess you actually meant that people with real knowledge would neither be leaving the forum nor displaying a lack of those other traits and this was but a passive aggressive insult aimed at me.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests