Hello, and requesting advice about wandering dhamma life practicalities

[MettaDevPrac]

David, there are places to ordain in the US; you wouldn't have to go to Thailand to ordain as a Theravadin bhikkhu. There are also other Buddhist ordination models available in the US, as someone already mentioned.

Perhaps a significant part of any renunciate lifestyle includes surrendering personal ego and lifestyle customization for a communal discipline. It is a support, not an impediment. Going it alone is a romantic idea, but not one's best chance for spiritual development or becoming a recognizable resource for others.

Maybe this sutta can help
https://suttacentral.net/snp1.8/en/mills

Best wishes for your ultimate happiness, peace, and freedom, through the Noble 8 Fold Path.

[JamesTheGiant]

James, do you know anything about how the wandering lay renunciates that you have met lived, in terms of practicalities (food, shelter, location)

With reference to the clothing, perhaps clothing which is a similar colour to the monks robes, but clearly laypeople's trousers & shirts?
Either a dirt-concealing ochre brown, or maybe the darker sort of purple colours of the Burmese and Tibetan monks.
That way people would understand that it's some kind of spiritual uniform but you wouldn't be mistaken for a monk.
Shaving head too of course.

One wanderer I met had very small one-man tent, in a green colour so he can easily stealth camp.
Another just carried a green tarp for shelter but that was in Australia where rain was uncommon.
They all had very small backpacks, maybe around 10 kilos? Just enough for a small tent and a light sleeping bag and I don't know what else. They all carried very little.
I don't think they had any cooking equipment like a gas hiking cooker.
One of them was very well connected in terms of internet and research and had an iphone with him. He did a lot of Wwoofing and working in return for accommodation and food, and was quite good at arranging things in advance.

They all slept in parks and under bridges and at the beach in the middle of winter, and uncomfortable places like that, so you'd have to be comfortable with being around homeless people and staying in filthy, uncomfortable and possibly dangerous places.

As for food, I have no idea how they got it because I only met these wanderers when they came to the monastery to stay or just gatecrash the place for a short time.
At the monasteries of course they got free food, and the monks were usually generous with resupplies for them.

Best of luck!

[SarathW]

Australian wondering monk.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=22188&start=15

[David111]

James,

Thank you for your reply.

May you be happy.

-David

[David111]

To my friends at dhammawheel,

Please allow me to approach this again in a fresh way. Suppose I try to live as a wanderer, sometimes buying my own food and staying in inexpensive accomodations, sometimes depending on others for food and shelter, depending at least in part on what kind of generosity is available. Do you have any suggestions for a location? A good location might be like this:

-Inexpensive hostels, or people who would be available to rent out a room in a house inexpensively on a daily irregular basis to me, to stay at at times

-A local culture where I would find opportunities to couchsurf on a dana basis with hosts who would be interested in having a guest leading a dedicated spiritual / religious life, to stay with at times

-Opportunities to receive free food, such as at a Theravada temple

-Market or supermarket with soy products

-Pleasant climate around this time of year

-Public library with free internet access

-Natural spaces / parks

-in the US

From one perspective, this life would be very materially adequate. If you like, compare it to someone going on vacation who wants to stretch their money by staying at inexpensive hostels, couchsurfing for free at times and meeting different hosts, and receiving free food at times. One difference between me and them would be, we have different motives for this. Another difference would be, I may do it for a much longer period of time. Another difference would be, they feel they have a home somewhere else that they plan to return to, whereas I may not feel that way.

Wandering in this way, I might visit many places, so, hearing about many places could help.

May you all be happy.

-David

[JamesTheGiant]

India! Are you from the USA, David?
I believe US citizens can get a ten year Visa to stay in India.
It's totally possible to do it in India, and you see Sadhus and wanderers commonly there. It's a thing.
There are places to get food, and westerners are not excluded if they're sadhus, in fact they may be more well supported because Indians like to see foreigners adopting their culture.
The climate is perfect for a wanderer too.

[SarathW]

In a country like Sri Lanka, you will be mistaken for a Hippy.
Hippies have a bad reputation in Sri Lanka.
There could be a language barrier as well.

[Mkoll]

Perhaps a significant part of any renunciate lifestyle includes surrendering personal ego and lifestyle customization for a communal discipline. It is a support, not an impediment. Going it alone is a romantic idea, but not one's best chance for spiritual development or becoming a recognizable resource for others.

Agreed. I can't recall any examples of a wandering lay renunciate in the suttas and there are probably good reasons for this. There were plenty of stream-enterer, once-returner and non-returner householders though. This shows one doesn't have to be homeless or a wanderer to make incredible progress.

To the OP, kudos to you for your determination. Given your situation, I'd say taking the steps to pursuing ordination is the right choice. Since you're interested in ordaining anyway, what you're proposing...sounds like ordination with extra steps.

And I'd also say don't take anybody's discouragement personally. I for one would discourage anyone from doing this in the US.

[dharmacorps]

Your revised plan sounds like a lot of work and relying on others to provide for you in an unstructured way (vs Monastic living which IS structured provision of requisites). Living in a cabin in the woods as a hermit makes more sense as a way to practice dhamma. But even then, that approach was not supported by the Buddha, if that makes a difference to you. I still don't understand why you wouldn't ordain.

[David111]

James,

Thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I am from the US. Do you have a suggestion for particular places in India? Do you know what is typical for people's English fluency in those areas?

Another question is, for a religious wanderer in India, do you know if the people who offer food have it available at a typical time or times? It is realistic to expect to receive enough food for one meal a day by 8am, or by 11am?

I read about a 10-year multiple entry visa with 180 days per stay (something like that).

I met one person who told me, as I remember and understand it, that he was a samanera in Myanmar, and later, still as a samanera, went (with a monk?) to India. He also mentioned that there was food support available.



To my friends at dhammawheel,

Please understand, I have not shared everything about why I want to try this kind of life.

One thing I will say is, if I ordain, I may be able to use that moment as a kind of absolute separation from many old ways of things. Old ways need not be unskillful, but it could also be very skillful for me at that particular point in life to see if I can no longer involve myself with them. The kinds of speech and interaction that I could practice as a wandering lay renunciate with people I encounter during wandering, and the kinds of circumstances that I would look to have them in, could be, partially or entirely, things that I would keep myself from doing as a bhikkhu or samanera.

If there is skillfulness in doing those things, and I am not going to disrobe in order to do them, when else will I do them?

One way to look at it is: this may be a great support for a future monastic lifestyle, but the support comes before the thing it supports.

I understand that the situation may seem perplexing or leading me in the wrong direction to some of you. Again, please consider that I have not shared everything about my thinking.

May the dhamma guide us all safely.

May you all be happy.

-David