Hi
I was active in formal Vipassana and yoga last century, and haven't been trying to get anywhere since. But now this year...... I think I once woke up in a strong state. I can feel something new that with some formal sitting can have a deep hum or din in my head sometimes more than the high pitch in the ears.
I am wondering if attaining jhanas are important or necessary or what the point of ' achieving' such would be as aiming for states is attachment, and (2) if it's related to realisation of Self or if Self or Reality other definition is at all a Buddhist concept, and if it is a higher level realisation than using techniques to attain a jhanas.
Also does attaining these understandings require the body to go through a period of purification such as experiencing alot of vibration through the body??
Also what is awakening, is it a complete other path, and can all of the above happen naturally to some or do U need years of devotion to meditation .
Obviously I'm confused about the definitions of various words used to describe situations. Nibbhana and emptiness I can understand better than awakening and enlightenment words, verbs versus adjectives.
Many thanks, I hope the above is truly under the umbrella of Buddhist tradition.
Greetings from Melbourne
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Welcome to DW!
You might want to open some topics in some of the other areas of the forum for those topics to discuss.
You might want to open some topics in some of the other areas of the forum for those topics to discuss.
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Greetings,
Welcome to Dhamma Wheel.
Metta,
Paul.
Welcome to Dhamma Wheel.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
WelcomeSlowlearner5 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:23 pm Hi
I was active in formal Vipassana and yoga last century, and haven't been trying to get anywhere since. But now this year...... I think I once woke up in a strong state. I can feel something new that with some formal sitting can have a deep hum or din in my head sometimes more than the high pitch in the ears.
I am wondering if attaining jhanas are important or necessary or what the point of ' achieving' such would be as aiming for states is attachment, and (2) if it's related to realisation of Self or if Self or Reality other definition is at all a Buddhist concept, and if it is a higher level realisation than using techniques to attain a jhanas.
Also does attaining these understandings require the body to go through a period of purification such as experiencing alot of vibration through the body??
Also what is awakening, is it a complete other path, and can all of the above happen naturally to some or do U need years of devotion to meditation .
Obviously I'm confused about the definitions of various words used to describe situations. Nibbhana and emptiness I can understand better than awakening and enlightenment words, verbs versus adjectives.
Many thanks, I hope the above is truly under the umbrella of Buddhist tradition.
That is the most amount of questions in the introduction post i've ever seen in my time on DW
1. It is possible to attain Cessation (supramundane absorbtion) without developing the mundane absorbtion jhanas, if it is possible for everyone i am not sure.
2. Cessation attainment realizes the escape from the bondage of identity-view and eradicates it.
3. No
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Welcome!
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Wow thanks, appreciate the comments well it could happen maybe on a month course.User1249x wrote: ↑Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:08 am Welcome
That is the most amount of questions in the introduction post i've ever seen in my time on DW
1. It is possible to attain Cessation (supramundane absorbtion) without developing the mundane absorbtion jhanas, if it is possible for everyone i am not sure.
2. Cessation attainment realizes the escape from the bondage of identity-view and eradicates it.
3. No
Cessation attainment, are there other words that are used to indicate that. Is that the same as commonly used awakening?
I'm wondering where realisation of Self fits in here if it comes later or anywhere at all.
Thanks very much that is very helpful, I've been reading the conversations here and needed some help with definitions.thanks for the welcome posts.
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
cessation attainment has many names and refers to cessation of conditioned [compounded/changing pheomena] names include path, fruition, nibbana, unbinding, deathless, cessation of perception and feeling, cessation of contact but some of these words also have specific meaning not shared with others.Slowlearner5 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:15 pm Wow thanks, appreciate the comments well it could happen maybe on a month course.
Cessation attainment, are there other words that are used to indicate that. Is that the same as commonly used awakening?
I'm wondering where realisation of Self fits in here if it comes later or anywhere at all.
Thanks very much that is very helpful, I've been reading the conversations here and needed some help with definitions.thanks for the welcome posts.
Realization of Self has no place in the doctrine per se because both the conditioned phenomena and the unconditioned turn out to be not-self (Anatta), insight into this is attained by practicing Insight meditation (Satipatthana Meditation).
I recommend reading about definitions of awakening in the Canki Sutta
When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on aversion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on aversion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not aversive. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's aversive.
When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on aversion, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.
When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.
"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth.
"Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. We regard this as an awakening to the truth. But to what extent is there the final attainment of the truth? To what extent does one finally attain the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the final attainment of the truth."
"The cultivation, development, & pursuit of those very same qualities: to this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. I describe this as the final attainment of the truth."
"Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. We regard this as the final attainment of the truth. But what quality is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the quality most helpful for the final attainment of the truth."
"Exertion is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth, Bharadvaja. If one didn't make an exertion, one wouldn't finally attain the truth. Because one makes an exertion, one finally attains the truth. Therefore, exertion is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth."
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Hello again, thanks for previous assistance. I saw some talks mentioning the dependent liberation sutta and process. Is there a typical timeline (eg 3 months in a monastery, 3 years at home, or retreat) for such a process starting with Piti and is the last stage feeling like a promise of some kind of attainment or kind of anti climax like going into a completely different room....because I don't understand the last part, thanks
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Welcome SL. I wouldn't be overly concerned with terminology because folks from Melbourne Australia are often slow learners ( ) but they eventually tend to flower or blossom beautifully after time. I would suggest to give up ideas about "jhana" and just focus on that "deep hum". Jhanas are certainly advantageous but they won't be reached by thinking about them or craving for them. Jhanas are just more "humming" but on a more refined, lucid & expansive frequency. Instead, I suggest to keep focusing that that "deep hum". So, yes, attaining these understandings require the body to go through a period of purification such as experiencing alot of vibration through the body.
"Awakening" is the knowing that whenever the mind merely listens openly & non-attached to the "deep hum", the purification of body & mind occur merely from that simple, quiet & subtle act of non-attached listening to the "deep hum" and "vibration" through the body; the act of surrendering to the deep hum.
"Nibbana" means the most satisfying peace and "emptiness" means empty the mind of ego ambition and allowing the mind to naturally hear the "deep hum" of selfless "vibrations" as the vibrations become clearer then calmer. "Emptiness" is the eventual dissolving of the ego-self into the deep hum vibrations (but this will not occur until the mind is sufficiently buoyant, confident, happy, calm & peaceful).
"Awakening" is the knowing that whenever the mind merely listens openly & non-attached to the "deep hum", the purification of body & mind occur merely from that simple, quiet & subtle act of non-attached listening to the "deep hum" and "vibration" through the body; the act of surrendering to the deep hum.
"Nibbana" means the most satisfying peace and "emptiness" means empty the mind of ego ambition and allowing the mind to naturally hear the "deep hum" of selfless "vibrations" as the vibrations become clearer then calmer. "Emptiness" is the eventual dissolving of the ego-self into the deep hum vibrations (but this will not occur until the mind is sufficiently buoyant, confident, happy, calm & peaceful).
For me, the introduction post was of one single essence; similar to how the Buddha said like the taste of the great ocean, the Dhamma has one taste, the taste freedom.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Thankyou thankyou @doodoot it helps alot to hear from the generous forum members, i will print like I have other answers and posts and reread. One message seems to be keep with what is in front of me and practice over the years, keep learning bits from books suttas etc. also for me it seems and must be that nature or natural process has existed for a long long time, way more than written history.
Only came across dependant liberation sutta last week so will take time absorbing a bit of that one.
Only came across dependant liberation sutta last week so will take time absorbing a bit of that one.
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Hello again.
Anyone know of strong temples or monasteries to sit in Thailand, say Bangkok, Chiang Mai, or elsewhere? For instance the bophit at Wat Po is one where it's easy to sit.
Thanks for any shared tips, I'm going on a travel.
Anyone know of strong temples or monasteries to sit in Thailand, say Bangkok, Chiang Mai, or elsewhere? For instance the bophit at Wat Po is one where it's easy to sit.
Thanks for any shared tips, I'm going on a travel.
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Yes, Wat Mahathat in Bangkok. If you are in Chiang Mai you should be able to go to one of the places that teach insight meditation according to Ajahn Tong Sirimangalo.Slowlearner5 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:39 pm Hello again.
Anyone know of strong temples or monasteries to sit in Thailand, say Bangkok, Chiang Mai, or elsewhere? For instance the bophit at Wat Po is one where it's easy to sit.
Thanks for any shared tips, I'm going on a travel.
Kevin
Re: Greetings from Melbourne
Welcome!
Please create a new post for each of your questions.
Please do not ask many questions in the same post.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”