Greetings from Melbourne

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Slowlearner5
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Greetings from Melbourne

Post by Slowlearner5 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:23 pm

Hi
I was active in formal Vipassana and yoga last century, and haven't been trying to get anywhere since. But now this year...... I think I once woke up in a strong state. I can feel something new that with some formal sitting can have a deep hum or din in my head sometimes more than the high pitch in the ears.
I am wondering if attaining jhanas are important or necessary or what the point of ' achieving' such would be as aiming for states is attachment, and (2) if it's related to realisation of Self or if Self or Reality other definition is at all a Buddhist concept, and if it is a higher level realisation than using techniques to attain a jhanas.
Also does attaining these understandings require the body to go through a period of purification such as experiencing alot of vibration through the body??

Also what is awakening, is it a complete other path, and can all of the above happen naturally to some or do U need years of devotion to meditation .
Obviously I'm confused about the definitions of various words used to describe situations. Nibbhana and emptiness I can understand better than awakening and enlightenment words, verbs versus adjectives.
Many thanks, I hope the above is truly under the umbrella of Buddhist tradition.

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DNS
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by DNS » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:01 pm

Welcome to DW!

You might want to open some topics in some of the other areas of the forum for those topics to discuss.

:anjali:

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retrofuturist
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Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:35 pm

Greetings,

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

rightviewftw
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:08 am

Slowlearner5 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:23 pm
Hi
I was active in formal Vipassana and yoga last century, and haven't been trying to get anywhere since. But now this year...... I think I once woke up in a strong state. I can feel something new that with some formal sitting can have a deep hum or din in my head sometimes more than the high pitch in the ears.
I am wondering if attaining jhanas are important or necessary or what the point of ' achieving' such would be as aiming for states is attachment, and (2) if it's related to realisation of Self or if Self or Reality other definition is at all a Buddhist concept, and if it is a higher level realisation than using techniques to attain a jhanas.
Also does attaining these understandings require the body to go through a period of purification such as experiencing alot of vibration through the body??

Also what is awakening, is it a complete other path, and can all of the above happen naturally to some or do U need years of devotion to meditation .
Obviously I'm confused about the definitions of various words used to describe situations. Nibbhana and emptiness I can understand better than awakening and enlightenment words, verbs versus adjectives.
Many thanks, I hope the above is truly under the umbrella of Buddhist tradition.
Welcome :hello:
That is the most amount of questions in the introduction post i've ever seen in my time on DW :tongue:
1. It is possible to attain Cessation (supramundane absorbtion) without developing the mundane absorbtion jhanas, if it is possible for everyone i am not sure.
2. Cessation attainment realizes the escape from the bondage of identity-view and eradicates it.
3. No

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bodom
Posts: 6229
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by bodom » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:56 am

Welcome!

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

Slowlearner5
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:28 pm

Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by Slowlearner5 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:15 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:08 am
Welcome :hello:
That is the most amount of questions in the introduction post i've ever seen in my time on DW :tongue:
1. It is possible to attain Cessation (supramundane absorbtion) without developing the mundane absorbtion jhanas, if it is possible for everyone i am not sure.
2. Cessation attainment realizes the escape from the bondage of identity-view and eradicates it.
3. No
Wow thanks, appreciate the comments well it could happen maybe on a month course.
Cessation attainment, are there other words that are used to indicate that. Is that the same as commonly used awakening?
I'm wondering where realisation of Self fits in here if it comes later or anywhere at all.
Thanks very much that is very helpful, I've been reading the conversations here and needed some help with definitions.thanks for the welcome posts.

rightviewftw
Posts: 1553
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Greetings from Melbourne

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:21 pm

Slowlearner5 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:15 pm
Wow thanks, appreciate the comments well it could happen maybe on a month course.
Cessation attainment, are there other words that are used to indicate that. Is that the same as commonly used awakening?
I'm wondering where realisation of Self fits in here if it comes later or anywhere at all.
Thanks very much that is very helpful, I've been reading the conversations here and needed some help with definitions.thanks for the welcome posts.
cessation attainment has many names and refers to cessation of conditioned [compounded/changing pheomena] names include path, fruition, nibbana, unbinding, deathless, cessation of perception and feeling, cessation of contact but some of these words also have specific meaning not shared with others.

Realization of Self has no place in the doctrine per se because both the conditioned phenomena and the unconditioned turn out to be not-self (Anatta), insight into this is attained by practicing Insight meditation (Satipatthana Meditation).
I recommend reading about definitions of awakening in the Canki Sutta
When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on aversion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on aversion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not aversive. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's aversive.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on aversion, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.

"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth.

"Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. We regard this as an awakening to the truth. But to what extent is there the final attainment of the truth? To what extent does one finally attain the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the final attainment of the truth."

"The cultivation, development, & pursuit of those very same qualities: to this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. I describe this as the final attainment of the truth."

"Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. We regard this as the final attainment of the truth. But what quality is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the quality most helpful for the final attainment of the truth."

"Exertion is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth, Bharadvaja. If one didn't make an exertion, one wouldn't finally attain the truth. Because one makes an exertion, one finally attains the truth. Therefore, exertion is most helpful for the final attainment of the truth."

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