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by Bundokji
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:04 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

These questions arise in you, not in me. I have not said that I think the arahannt would be different (or the same) to what I described when it comes to a magic trick.... You still have not clarified as I requested: What does it mean for an arahant to be deceived? What does it mean to say that "the...
by Bundokji
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:04 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Actually I don't see that you have clarified what I mentioned in that you only refer to me talking about my experience.....are you suggesting that you take me to be an arahant so my experience is the defining one?....I doubt it. Why not? Why do you think the Arahant would be different to what you d...
by Bundokji
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:54 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

I think it would be easier and quicker to just become an arahant oneself than to try to come to a conclusion by speculating about the exact scope of an arahant's abilities. I thought Arahants have ended becoming. Now, while this might be technically true, to render your statement moot because of it...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:04 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Sure. The arahant has no things to do and no places to be, unlike ordinary people. But you might be equating relevance with ability. When sensual passion is no longer a motive, this might unleash abilities that are not known to ordinary people. Usually, insight is associated with the senses becomin...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:20 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

Optical illusions connected with water and other fluids are relevant to those people who need to build ships and bridges, for example (those illusions have to do with measuring depth of the water, for example). So, if i understand you correctly, the notion of objective reality and its utility in co...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:08 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: OCD and spiritual
Replies: 32
Views: 359

Re: OCD and spiritual

There seems to be similarities. Obsessions about purity (germophobia), or attaching to rituals.
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

If I would have to guess, I'd say they are -- but it doesn't matter for them. Sensory illusions are relevant for people who need to get things done in the world. Assuming that arahants don't have to, for example, build bridges and ships nor measure liquid contents in transparent containers, the opt...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:59 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

chownah wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:04 pm are you suggesting that you take me to be an arahant so my experience is the defining one?....I doubt it.
Why not? Why do you think the Arahant would be different to what you described when it comes to a magic trick?
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:53 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

What does it mean for an arahant to be deceived? What does it mean to say that "the trick worked" on them? Seconded. I'd like the OP to give three examples of actual magic tricks and what he means by the audience of the trick being "deceived" and the "trick working on them". It has no bearing on wh...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:52 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

As a supportive tangent, you could explore whether an arahant is subject to optical illusions, audio illusions, and other sensory illusions. Some magic tricks are based on such illusions. I mentioned in a previous post that the specifics of the delusion that the Arahant has transcended and the limi...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:41 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

The Angulimala Sutta shows an example of the Buddha using his psychic powers in a way seesm relevant to his teachings: Then the Blessed One willed a feat of psychic power such that Angulimala, though running with all his might, could not catch up with the Blessed One walking at normal pace. Then the...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:05 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

In the Buddha's days, are there people who are affected by witchcraft and looks for the Buddha and his chief disciples for help? My knowledge is limited in this area, but from what i know, Karaniya Metta sutta was given to monks who were harrassed in the forest by ghosts or evil spirits. The Ratana...
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:08 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

binocular wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:02 am Do you really think that an arahant would stop at an intersection and watch a magician perform tricks?
Not necessarily, but your emphasis on this is missing the point.
by Bundokji
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:06 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Arahants and magic tricks
Replies: 89
Views: 1013

Re: Arahants and magic tricks

If the Buddha thinks that already an ordinary person can recognize a magic trick as being without substance, then surely so can the arahant. The ordinary person knows in theory that a magic trick is without a substance and still gets impressed by it. Why? because his/her lack of certainty that are ...