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by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Greetings Tilt, Actually, the suttas and the commentaries do not support your position. And on this point we disagree. Your reference to venerable Dhammanando's quote may have applicability to the initial steps of anapanasati, but your attempt to use that as a broad brush dismissal of all the sutta...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Greetings Tilt, If it is feeble it is no less so than the arguments you and zom have proffered. Despite your protests, it is indeed much less. Zom and I have provided Sutta, Suttānuloma and Atthakathā. Advocates of the coarse breathing have provided mere Attanomati. Actually, the suttas and the com...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:24 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

As pointed out above, Sunlun's instruction for heavy breathing is not an end in itself but merely a strategy to gain concentration not unlike counting the breath or using the mantra Buddho. If this does not count as anapanasati, then it would still be within Satipatthana, just like Mahasi's use of ...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:23 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Greetings Tilt, and mine opinion is that there is zero evidence that it contravenes good Dhamma practice. If that's the best Dhammic substantiation that can be provided for such curious huffing, then I guess I have little to respond to. If it is feeble it is no less so than the arguments you and zo...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:02 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Your criticism is grounded in opinion, but certainly not experience. Quite bold statement, don't you think? Possibly, but certainly less so than your dismissal of this practice. But, if you are really interested, from the perspective of personal experience I can say this: if you really want an effe...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:46 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Greetings Tilt, Quite to the contrary, it supports the instructions and objectives. "...but you have not shown it to be so." That's fine. I'm happy to regard it as your personal experience or as an article of faith on your part, but I dont intend to regard it as being in any way aligned to or compa...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:41 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

aflatun wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:36 am
tiltbillings wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:30 am
Good to see you back here sir tilt, hope you'll stick around :hello:
Thanks.
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:40 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

I really don't understand this attacking of other people's anapanasati strategies. The purpose of it is to make the mind calm, clear, collected, and ripe for insight. If someone's breathing strategy is moving them in that direction (and only they could know), we should be happy for them, not pounci...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:30 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Greetings, There are standard preliminary exercises in Theravada (e.g. recollection of the Buddha). Never once have I heard of a preliminary exercise, the undertaking of which, is directly opposed to the instructions and objectives which follow it. Neither have I, and the concentrated breathing wor...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:18 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Similarly, in the suttas there is frequent mention of the act of tranquilizing the bodily formation... He trains thus: 'Tranquilizing the bodily formation, I will breathe in'; He trains thus: 'Tranquilizing the bodily formation, I will breathe out';..." Not once have I seen an instruction in the su...
by tiltbillings
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:21 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Indeed... especially when you've provided substantiation for your position from Theravadin texts. That alone takes it beyond mere opinion in the view of the classical Theravada tradition, which prioritises sources in this manner: ... I guess I missed that. No, you did not. It was not there to be mi...
by tiltbillings
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:21 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Zom wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:18 pm
Your criticism is grounded in opinion, but certainly not experience.
Quite bold statement, don't you think?
Possibly, but certainly less so than your dismissal of this practice.
by tiltbillings
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:34 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

But no such stipulation is found in the Suttas or the Visuddhimagga or in any other Theravadin source. The status of the claim in the Theravada is not that of a "traditional understanding" but merely that of a widely held modern opinion, though not by any means a universally held one. We are speaki...
by tiltbillings
Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:16 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

Also, there is nothing that says that the concentration cultivated by a Sunlun style of initial strong breathing cannot be used to do the practices outlined MN 118 once the initial strong breathing exercise is stopped and breathing normally is resumed. As the “normal” breathing resumes after a peri...
by tiltbillings
Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Sunlun Sayadaw method
Replies: 114
Views: 10834

Re: Sunlun Sayadaw method

I haven't heard this is practised anywhere widely. But again, even if it is - tantric practices, which are pure non-Dhamma, are also "buddhist" in this sense. Well, any kind of active sport is also a cultivation of concentration. But it has nothing to do with anapanasati, which requires calming the...