Search found 815 matches

by Spiny O'Norman
Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:44 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "The Deathless" (amata)
Replies: 423
Views: 47584

Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Don't forget this part of the Bahiya sutta: Where water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing: There the stars do not shine, the sun is not visible, the moon does not appear, darkness is not found. And when a sage, a brahman through sagacity, has known [this] for himself, then from form & formless, ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:49 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

I can see that clinging to self is an important aspect of the clinging described in DO. But I don't see how your interpretation is consistent with the section of DO which describes biological birth arising in dependence on becoming in the 3 realms. Greetings, Spiny, I've done (aging-and-) Death at ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:40 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

Any time we are engaged in activities that have reference to that sense-of-self, we are in the DA process, engaged in fueling it, adding to our concepts of self, so we are part of what is "born, ages, suffers, dies" (in that we are feeding off of those experiences). I can see that clinging to self ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:30 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

Hi Spiny, everyone, Quote: "But in DO "death" is defined in straightforward physical terms - so I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here." How can you say that "death" is described in straightforward physical terms? 1. It is clearly said to be the "death" of "a being" (satta). 2. A being is define...
by Spiny O'Norman
Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:40 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Abhidhamma amata
Replies: 32
Views: 1966

Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Nibbana can be experienced during life, during a path or fruit moment. At that time, the unborn, undying, element (where earth, water, fire, air, do not arise) can be experienced directly. This, of course, removes defilements. Could you be more specific about how this happens? Are you thinking of j...
by Spiny O'Norman
Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:06 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Do the Three Realms Really Exist?
Replies: 22
Views: 1499

Re: Do the Three Realms Really Exist?

SamKR wrote: Even if the realms may be real places Nibbana is not another place.
And what about Pari-nibbana?

Spiny
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:06 am
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Replies: 332
Views: 26698

Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

I know one or two traditions that do indeed reject right jhana, they do this by their vocal warnings of the 'dangers' and the unnecessariness of jhana and their redefinition of what the Buddha considered 'right' and what they consider nearly right 'access to rightness'. I think it is a strange situ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:01 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

When he talks about the Unborn, Unconditioned, Unaging, Deathless... he is making a specific reference to the mechanism he's describing with paticca samuppada -- it's what's born there, its aging, conditionality, and death(s) that is the issue. When he talks about the opposites, he is just saying t...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:53 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

I am saying The Deathless isn't a great mystical state or Release From (literal) Death. I am saying it is a state of being liberated from the specific circumstances of DA, and that it is release from the Death he defined there, which is, really, just dukkha. But in DO "death" is defined in straight...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:50 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: the great rebirth debate
Replies: 6108
Views: 463787

Re: the great rebirth debate

I am curious to know whether a poster who proclaims views about "the Deathless" actually knows and sees the Deathless for him/herself or whether it's rooted in mere reading, thinking, and reasoning. Knows and sees, and that this is what is experienced is backed up by "mere reading thinking, and rea...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:47 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Meditation, 5 hindrances, and the misconception
Replies: 33
Views: 4376

Re: Meditation, 5 hindrances, and the misconception

Brizzy wrote:Right effort and mindfulness are both part of the same practice. I don't believe you can practice right mindfulness without right effort.
Yes, and vice-versa. ;)

Spiny
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:45 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Do the Three Realms Really Exist?
Replies: 22
Views: 1499

Re: Do the Three Realms Really Exist?

retrofuturist wrote:Namely, that "realms" are experienced, and that whether they are "really" [A] geospatial places or just mental states, is inconsequential.


I don't think it's atall inconsequential in terms of understanding the suttas in general and DO in particular.

Spiny
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:37 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "The Deathless" (amata)
Replies: 423
Views: 47584

Re: the great rebirth debate

”Then the group of five monks, being thus exhorted, thus instructed by me [the Buddha], being liable to death because of self, having known the perils in what is liable to death, seeking freedom from death , the uttermost security from the bonds -- nibbana -- won freedom from death , the uttermost ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:25 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

Hi Spiny, You say: "This quote certainly supports the view that jati is referring to a physical rather than a psychological birth, as some have suggested." The description of the link "birth" in DO, includes both physical and non-physical birth, because the beings in the formless realm have no form...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:22 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

But, if self-view persists, does it not lead to a view about what this self will become in the future? One view leads to another. The problem seems to be that there is no clear reason to understand the description of the link "birth" as referring to a view. I think clinging in DO is essentially abo...
by Spiny O'Norman
Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:15 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

It seems to me that it is one's "own birth" that is the issue, without bothering over such details as which sort of birth, in what way, how one was in the past, was one in the past, etcetera ad nauseum. But according to the way DO is described in the suttas it seems more general than that. DO says ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:29 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

Hi everyone, I am trying to improve my understanding of "jati" (birth). ...Note the terms "egg-born", "womb-born" and "moisture-born". Note also the frequent use of the term "being". How can this not be relevant to our understanding of the link "birth"? This quote certainly supports the view that j...
by Spiny O'Norman
Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:27 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

The term "bhava" can be understood either as "existence" or as a "process of existence". This is why it is often translated as "becoming". My understanding of bhava is that it means: The continuation of the apparent existence of a self. It seems to me that becoming ( bhava ) is a process in the con...
by Spiny O'Norman
Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

So there is cessation of bhava for an arahant? The bhava that the Buddha defined in dependent arising, yes. :namaste: So let's look at the bhava that the Buddha defined in dependent origination. In SN12.2 ( and similarly in MN9 ) bhava is described like this: "And what is becoming? These three are ...
by Spiny O'Norman
Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:26 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Craving - Analysis.
Replies: 133
Views: 6834

Re: Craving - Analysis.

vinasp wrote: The three kinds of existence (bhava) are also called being, becoming.
Since nibbana is the cessation of existence, all three kinds have
to cease.
I'm still not sure what you mean by an arahant ceasing to exist.

Spiny