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by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:38 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

None, not one of your several sources say that Nirodha is the same as Nibbana. All they say is, based on jhana, one "directs his mind" toward Nibbana. If you're not even able to distinguish that phrase from the phrase "Nirodha is the same as Nibbana", then you need to take a break from Buddhist stu...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:10 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Please provide any exact sutta quote that says "cessation of perception and feeling" is Nibbana. Okay, I'll cite several. First of all, a common passage that describes how a practitioner, based on jhana, directs his mind to nibbana. For example, MN 64: and directs it towards the deathless element t...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:27 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Do you mean this? having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations are completely ended. Sorry, but how this says that nibbana and nirodha are different? Let's put the word nibbana instead: "he enters nibbana... and having having seen [that] with discernment, his mental fermentations ar...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:19 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

they don´t.
And for the third time I'm asking for the source. Can you cite a passage where suttas say that these two are different things?
I can cite a lot where they equate these two.
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:10 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

your assertions have been called absurd I say that suttas say that "cessation of perception and feeling" is nibbana. Okay, you can call my words "an absurd", but this will be an absurd itself, because no matter what you say, suttas still equate these two - nirodha and nibbana. Even Buddhaghosa, tho...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:00 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

which is conditioned by a duration (lasting 7 days or more); Duration is conditioned, but not the state itself. Nirodha in and of itself does not automatically guarantee Nibbana It does, as non-returner has direct nibbana experience. It is just his mental fermentations are not totally destroyed. be...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:52 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

it´s conditioned and impermanent.
Source please.
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:46 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

yes but it is mentally conditioned. Source please. And, for example, here is AN 9.47 to consider: “It is said, friend, ‘directly visible nibbāna, directly visible nibbāna.’ In what way has the Blessed One spoken of directly visible nibbāna?” “Here, friend, secluded from sensual pleasures . . . a bh...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Not the same because cessation is mentally fashioned. It is not, because all mentality ceases there. It is like if you say: when flame ceases - this happens because there are certain reasons for flame to not exist. But this is a defective logic, because only something that exists has causes and con...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:57 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Question : if both are the same why need to call it nirodha samapatti ! ?
Because 2nd (cessation of perception and feeling) is a technical term that is there to correlate with the highest possible wordly attainment, that is, sphere of neither perception nor non perception.
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:43 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"
Replies: 68
Views: 837

Re: "Nibbana" and "the end of perception and feelings"

Are they totally different? This is one and the same thing as many suttas show. And again, there is no even one single passage in the whole canon that differentiates them. However, suttas do say about 2 types of nibbana. One is purely psychological, a mind state of an arahant. This is called "nibba...
by Zom
Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:37 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Is there consciousness in Nirodha Samāpatti?
Replies: 81
Views: 1213

Re: Is there consciousness in Nirodha Samāpatti?

Please explain how faculties are clear in Nirodha without consciousness.
They are clear after you emerge from it. And quite clear before you enter as well .)
by Zom
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:21 pm
Forum: Samatha Bhāvana
Topic: Is there consciousness in Nirodha Samāpatti?
Replies: 81
Views: 1213

Re: Is there consciousness in Nirodha Samāpatti?

Nirodha seems to be a very obscure "jhāna".
Nirodha is actual real nibbana. Consciousness ends there, and because it ends, one becomes anagami or arahant after he achieved that.
by Zom
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:48 am
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Why Meditation Doesn't Work For Many People?
Replies: 52
Views: 1521

Re: Why Meditation Doesn't Work For Many People?

The Buddha's teaching on meditation is not rigid and monolithic.
Yes. And today's meditation is Spiritual Fastfood. You won't become healthy eating this.
by Zom
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Rebirth in lower states although has right view
Replies: 31
Views: 827

Re: Rebirth in lower states although has right view

Where did he say that? Sounds like Jainism. Common misconception. Where in Jainism do they say that? And in Suttapitaka there are several passages, like: “Attained to the end of all kamma, Liberated in the extinction of acquisitions, That Blessed One is my Teacher: His is the teaching I approve.” (...