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by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 10:41 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

.... There is not really much point quoting my entire post when you appear to ignore &/or avoid it. Obviously there are 3 sankharas in MN44, and obviously sankharas has a specific meaning in that context. And obviously sankharas has different meanings in the suttas, I've already agreed that. Sorry ...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 10:30 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

It's directly relevant to the topic. You are the one who keeps going off on tangents. You need to refute what I wrote. You never refute what I write. I wrote the below: Perceptions and feelings are connected to/related to/inseparable from/bound to the state of mind. There can be no state of the cit...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 10:20 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

Similarly, perception and feeling are mental formation s... Thats what MN44 says. The above is contrary to Dhamma principles. MN 44 does not say this. Only the translator says this. There are many suttas on citta, such as AN 1.49-52 , MN 10 and Cittavagga Dhammapada. These suttas are not about perc...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 10:14 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

If you don't agree with Bhikkhu Bodhi's rendering in MN44 of "perceptions and feelings are mental formations because they are bound to the mind" then you need to provide a valid alternative. The above is not relevant to our discussion. Again, please try to stay on topic, we're discussing a particul...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 10:10 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

Similarly, perception and feeling are mental formation s... Thats what MN44 says. The above is contrary to Dhamma principles. MN 44 does not say this. Only the translator says this. There are many suttas on citta, such as AN 1.49-52, MN 10 and Cittavagga Dhammapada. These suttas are not about perce...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 7:57 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

I think Bhikkhu Bodhi's rendition of "bodily formation" is a good one. I think Bhikkhu Bodhi's rendition of "bodily formation" is not a good translation for the following obvious logical reason. In the relevant suttas (MN 44 and SN 41.6), the question is asked: “Sir, how many saṅkhārā are there?” “...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 7:50 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

I think Bhikkhu Bodhi's rendition of "bodily formation" is a good one. The Dhamma teaches about suffering & the cessation of suffering. I think any explanation should fall within this scope of the Dhamma. "Bodily formation" sounds meaningless to me and reminds me of the following saying attributed ...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 6:36 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

You're the one who has been interpreting sankhara here, not me. I've just gone with what the text actually says, one thing being tied up with another. You are just repeating yourself, with baseless hollow comments. The text saying one thing being tied up with another does not explain the meaning of...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 6:31 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

No, I'm just going with what the text says... But your'e not. You appear to be interpreting the translated texts in a manner heretical to the Dhamma Refuge. PTS Pali English Dictionary saṅkhāra one of the most difficult terms in Buddhist metaphysics, in which the blending of the subjective-objectiv...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 6:18 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Processes at sense doors
Replies: 69
Views: 2098

Re: Processes at sense doors

Perhaps you could explain what you do mean by "process". In earlier discussions I was using it to simply mean "something that changes over time", not as a comment on causality. This thread is "processes at the sense doors" which seems to mean mental processes in terms of psychological events that c...
by Spiny Norman
Mon May 04, 2020 6:14 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

"But why are in-&-out breaths bodily fabrications? Why are directed thought & evaluation verbal fabrications? Why are perceptions & feelings mental fabrications?" "In-&-out breaths are bodily; these are things tied up with the body. That's why in-&-out breaths are bodily fabrications. https://www.a...
by Spiny Norman
Sun May 03, 2020 8:07 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Processes at sense doors
Replies: 69
Views: 2098

Re: Processes at sense doors

My point is a difficult one to express but nevertheless I think it is an imortant one. I agree that our experience of things is conditional and my view is that the condition upon which our experience depends is the sum total or result of the fabrications that we have made (based on our six senses) ...
by Spiny Norman
Sun May 03, 2020 6:42 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

I've already referenced three translations of MN44 which support the "tied up with" meaning. Can you reference a translation of MN44 which contradicts this meaning? You have done nothing. It was already explained how your ideas about "tied up with" are not relevant to the term "sankhara". Now do no...
by Spiny Norman
Sun May 03, 2020 6:38 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

A lot of this seems off-topic. Its not. What was off-topic was your mistaken non-sutta doctrine " directed thought and evaluation are tied up with speech ". :roll: I think one problem in your interpretation here is your sloppy use of "condition/fabricate". A having an effect on B is not the same as...
by Spiny Norman
Sun May 03, 2020 6:30 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Bodily Fabrications
Replies: 48
Views: 1307

Re: Bodily Fabrications

So it's just about what things are tied up with, or connected to. Simple really. And not about one thing fabricating another. Spiny Norman. To add to the case for the wrongness & error of the above, these terms are found in SN 41.6 & MN 44, as follows: “What’s the difference between someone who has...