Search found 725 matches

by ToVincent
Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:06 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

Almost all "reputable teachers" discuss this in detail... Hi Mikenz66, I believe you are talking about "scholars". The problem is that, nowadays, scholars are saying, what they have been told to say. The "non-scholars", on the other hand, are divided in two types. The ones who tell about, and defen...
by ToVincent
Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:39 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

that is to say the escape from the world through control and intervention of our part . And what does that look like in terms of practice? Since you have been less than clear here, this what you are referring to as the "non-gentle" way? Ginckip het snigs fo ym won dimd, lowud eb a dogo tasrt. Darn!...
by ToVincent
Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:30 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

:woohoo: Again that assumption that "I don't uderstand the grammar of the suttas"; while you're having that monologue with yourself about what this translator did wrongly think of this pericope, and what another one has translated as badly. This is what I call an exercise of style, from someone tha...
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:56 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

But then, if he is accomplished in mindfulness, what is the purpose of doing mindfulness? Another strange logic pointing here. Indeed, it would be strange, but where in this refrain is there anything being described by action verbs? Vineyya is a verb, but as an absolutive, it describes something th...
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:50 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

SN 46.56 (SA 711–712) - "But, venerable sir, what is the cause and condition for lack of knowledge and vision (aññāṇāya adassanāya)?" - The hindrances (nīvaraṇa) answers the Buddha. - But, venerable sir, what is the cause and condition for knowledge and vision? - a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment...
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:49 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

tiltbillings wrote:Gentle means "control?" Non-gentle means "no-control?"
Sorry, I don't set my mind on trivial aspects.
We understood each other.
Gentle means "no-control?" Non-gentle means "control?"
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:49 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

It may be that you and I understand the term "gentle" in different ways. Gentle vs. not-gentle means control vs. no-control. In our case: "accepts things (the defilements) for what they are vs. trying to vanquish them". http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=27711&sid=1f48a148924a010d76db6f493...
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:21 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

You poor thing. If nit-picking on a missed "full" is your strategy to evade a fulsome discussion of your silly confusion of a substantive noun for an adjective, then that speaks volumes of you. :woohoo: The poor thing is not nit-picking. It is just that this "coincidental" ***"missed" "full"***, or...
by ToVincent
Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:36 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

Tough, but I have no patience with people who wade into modern controversies generated by English translations which do not exist in the Pali. So your translation is the following: Here, a monk dwells with reference to the body, as a body-contemplator, as one accomplished in ardency, as one fully a...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:45 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

By seeing the nature of the defilement as being anicca, dukkha, and anatta, and in the process seeing the conditioned/conditioning nature in it rise and fall. Not thinking about these thing, but seeing them, clearly. It takes work. Are you saying with this ordinary remark (that I could have made up...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:17 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

Forceful suppression of defilements should be used wherever appropriate, but it's not the only method to be used. See the Sabbāsava Sutta I understand Bhikkhu; but this kind of generality and platitude does not help much to confine the discussion to mindfulness, and help expatiate it. There are myr...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:34 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

... If I understand you right, the translation should be somewhat like this: The body contemplator, (that is accomplished) in ardency, alertness and mindfulness remains focused, etc... But then, if he is accomplished in mindfulness, what is the purpose of doing mindfulness? Another strange logic po...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

... It is not on MN 148 that I will focus, but on the following sutta; for it adresses right effort that comes before sati in the noble eightfold path. There are two ways to translate MN 141. Katamo cāvuso sammāvāyāmo? Now what, venerable friends, is right effort (endeavour)? Idhāvuso bhikkhu anupp...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:37 pm
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

... In mindfulnesses, we are not asked to resist or to accept dhammas as they are; we are asked to discern, and to act upon the discerned, whenever that is possible. Viz. I discern a long or a short breath and then I calm the breath (act), or for instance, the mere acknowledgment of the fading of a...
by ToVincent
Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:40 am
Forum: General Theravāda Meditation
Topic: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?
Replies: 90
Views: 10203

Re: Mindfulness of defilements - gently accept or vanquish?

I think this quote applies here well: "Without tarrying, friend, and without hurrying did I cross the flood." By Neither pulling forward (pushing it) neither by standing in your place (bare awareness) will one cross the flood. I agree: Neither you accept the defilement for what they are, nor you tr...