Search found 786 matches

by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:48 am
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?
Replies: 68
Views: 1900

Re: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?

Is there such a sutta? I think my previous post is conclusive about how the terms "dependent origination" and "dependently originated" were used by the Lord Buddha. However, to give Nargajuna some hope in this debate, I should post the 1 omitted sutta from the original 11 to examine what it might m...
by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:47 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Momentariness is the correct term. There's even a point of controversy within the Pali Canon itself where the term is used in the English translation and many authors use this term when discussing this topic. It is a translation of the Pali "ksana Perhaps you can give the contest for where ksana is...
by zan
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:04 am
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

What you are describing is the arising and ceasing of citta, cetasika, and rupa in abhidhamma. It is better to call this sankhara (conditioned) rather than flux or momentariness to emphasize the fact that they appear and disappear depending on a condition. Since this is abhidhamma, one candidate fo...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:02 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

dharmacorps wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:21 pm
Seems to me that there are very advanced practitioners (i.e. arahants) who interpret this quite differently, which leads me to believe it doesn't ultimately matter that much how one interprets it. But if this is for the sake of academic argument then I digress.
Thanks. Who are they?
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:17 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Does anyone know of any teachers who are classical orthodox Theravada for the most part but reject flux or momentariness? Excellent question. Gombrich (in What the Buddha Thought , pp. 70-71) expresses the view that anicca has been over-literally and anachronistically interpreted by the commentarie...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:06 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Re: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Does anyone know of any teachers who are classical orthodox Theravada for the most part but reject flux or momentariness? Ajahn Mun and Ajahn Pannavaddho said "the citta never dies." Thanks but that is a different issue. My fault for not being clear enough. I'm adding an explanation of momentarines...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:34 pm
Forum: Classical Theravāda
Topic: Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?
Replies: 21
Views: 671

Classical, orthodox Theravada teachers who reject flux?

Does anyone know of any teachers who are classical orthodox Theravada for the most part but reject flux or momentariness? Edit: Momentariness in Theravada is a subatomic particle theory which explains reality as being composed of extremely tiny particles called kalapas, they disappear and reappear a...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:30 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?
Replies: 68
Views: 1900

Sutta where the Buddha declares that everything is dependently originated?

Is there such a sutta? I know there are many where it is declared all things are temporary and without self, is there one that specifically says all things are dependently originated? Using the word "Pratītyasamutpāda (Pali for dependent origination)" and declaring that this word applies to literall...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:21 pm
Forum: Connections to Other Paths
Topic: Where does the work Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way conflict with Theravada?
Replies: 23
Views: 1132

Re: Where does the work Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way conflict with Theravada?

What about the core issues people debate on here? 1.) Does this work posit or allow for any kind of eternalism? 2.) Does it posit or allow for a special, immortal consciousness outside the five aggregates? 3.) Does it posit or allow nibbana to be living forever as a conscious experience? 4.) Does it...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:29 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Thanks but where did I mention Nagarjuna? I'm asking about the view in general, not Nagarjuna's position. But there's no such thing as "the view in general". For different Mahayana teachers and different Mahayana schools the claim that saṃsāra is nirvāṇa has meant all sorts of different things. For...
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:28 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

char101 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:42 am
zan wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:43 pm
char101 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:22 am
If Nibanna is samsara then you would already have attained Nibanna.
Excellent point. Please elaborate.
Premise A: Beings live in samsara
Premise B: Nibanna and samsara is identical
Conclusion: Those beings have attained Nibanna
Lol fair enough. Thanks.
by zan
Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:28 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Santa100 wrote Might want to increase the font to your 2nd sentence below the first sentence in the OP for clarification: Thanks Santa100, I totally missed the fine print. Now that you point it out, I thank you. I guess the OP posted a trick question. He said "Change my view" but underneath in almo...
by zan
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:58 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

SteRo wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:19 am
How could the different meanings of two different words be identical?
Thanks. Fair point. I don't know either. This is what I'm trying to wrap my head around by hopefully hearing how people discuss it.
by zan
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:55 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

OP says Nibbana and Samsara are identical according to Nagarjuna but if I remember right, Nagarjuna somewhere in the same verses says he has no view, or that he holds no position regarding anything at all. How did OP come up with a view? Nagarjuna does not appear to have held any views at all. You ...
by zan
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:52 pm
Forum: General Theravāda discussion
Topic: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.
Replies: 58
Views: 1915

Re: Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view.

Nibbana and samsara are identical. Change my view. Might want to increase the font to your 2nd sentence below the first sentence in the OP for clarification: I do not believe this, but want to hear the counters to this idea and this is the least convoluted way. So basically it's never really been y...